New to group.

My wife and I live just south of Ontario in Minnesota.  When we were
in our teens and twenties we guided canoe trips in NE Minnesota and
Ontario.  Now that our kids are (mostly) gone from home, we've
started to do more canoeing again.  We will be doing four week long
canoe trips this summer and one ten day canoeing/grouse hunting trip
this fall.

P.

The new picture is of Gail Lake, a spring feed lake in Killarney Park
where I will be spending a week next month with my son, brother, his
grandson and two nephews - a regular family affair.  Also, Gail is my
wife's name.

Happy Canada Day

Go to grandriver.ca for the local Conservation Authority, and links to other
sites.
Greg
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Joe
   To: canoeontario@...
   Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2003 11:33 AM
   Subject: [Canoe Ontario] New Member - Grand River?


   Hi, just joined the group looking for any information on the Grand
   River in southern Ontario.


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Also check out Archive posts 38 to 41.

The Grand River Conservation Authority publishes a great
book, "Canoeing The Grand" complete with maps that you can buy on-
line from their web site.  I had the book at one time but I loaned it
out and never got it back because the guy who borrowed it lost it
overboard in the rapids at Paris.  He never offered to replace it!

I was in Peterbrough, Ontario on the weekend and got to go to the
Canadian Canoe Museum.  For anyone who has never been there, you
should try to visit it some day, it was really great.  Check out
their website.
http://www.canoemuseum.net/

Though we've done a lot of day paddling on our lake, and down the
river to the walleye hole, for one reason and another events have
conspired against our canoe trips this year.  We had to cancel on
our May and June trips, but when July 1 rolled around, Wing insisted
we get out.

We went canoeing, but it didn't go as we'd planned and really wasn't
much of a trip. This was supposed to be a family trip, but the two
oldest boys had to bow out at the last minute due to work schedules,
so it was Wing, Tim age 16, Sara, age 14, and I - in two canoes.
Tim and Sara were in our 18.5 foot We-no-nah Minnesota II, and Wing
and I were in our 18.5 foot Bell Northwoods. We ended up with four
packs for the four of us - which we all agreed was excessive, but it
was just too late to do anything about it.

We hadn't been up the Horse River since about 1971. We started out
from home about 2:00 PM, with quite a drive ahead of us. When we got
to the trailhead, we were surprised to find no parking available,
except some on private property, for which the owner wanted $2.50
for loading, unloading, and $2.50 a day to park the vehicle. We
ended up unloading and loading up the road, which required running a
rapids (kind of fun), but had to park in their lot - which really
had me steamed. I'm not sure how we got in and out when we used to
run the Horse on a regular basis, but we certainly weren't paying
for parking. Will be talking to DNR and my congressman about this.
Absolutely no reason, with miles of public land, they can't have a
public lot dozed near the place we put in. Burns me to be gouged by
the gov't for permits - and gouged by an opportunistic land-owner
besides.

After the first rapids, we paddled cross Mudro, and portaged into a
small river that connects with Fourtown. The temps were in the high
80s to low 90s, and we were all decked in hats and neckerchiefs - to
keep sun exposure down. Wing's bow steering kept us on track
through the rivers, while Sara and Tim have a bit yet to learn in
this regard. I did my best to keep my mouth shut and not make any
fatherly comments. I did mention that Tim's gouvernai abilities
have definitely improved since last year, however.

There were several portages on the river, two of which I remembered
well from the 70s. One of them, fairly short, was the rockiest
portage imaginable, through a deep cliff lined canyon - a good place
to break a leg, due to shifting rocks underfoot while carrying the
canoe.

The other portage was memorable due to its length and the high rock
ledges necessary to climb to get across it. There was a spot where
you are on the rock shelf and the portage takes a sudden turn to the
west. If you continue to go straight, you could fall about 75 feet
into the river. This almost happened to me when I was younger,
taking the portage after dark. It's the kind of thing you don't
forget. I remembered the portage well - I just didn't remember
where it was. Anyway, it was long, hot, and rugged, and we were all
worn out by the time we got over it.

Walking portages is always a little strange. You are in a totally
wild setting - sometimes trees have fallen over the trail - yet when
you think of it, folks have been walking these same trails for
thousands of years - to get around the rapids and falls.

After the portages, there was more wild rice river, meandering all
over the landscape. sometimes the river would turn to the point
where you were going west when trying to get to Fourtown - which is
to the east.

Once on Fourtown, we checked out a number of campsites, which were
occupied or unacceptable. Once I got my bearings - and things
started to look familiar - I remembered a very good site, on a
secondary rocky point, but tucked back in a large bay. We rounded
the first point and found the site unoccupied. It was a perfect
site for hot summer weather. The breeze helps with the heat and
keeps down the bugs. In cooler weather it would be a poor site.
Wing was concerned about two black bears we saw just before coming
to shore, but though we saw their sign, during our stay, they never
bothered us.

At the last minute, I'd purchased a water filter. It turned out to
be a good thing as every body of water we were on showed tons of
beaver sign, and every bend we turned in the lakes and rivers had a
beaver slap warning. If you could get more than $50 for a prime
blanket beaver (and much less for most) - it would be prime trapping
area. The filter was a little different than most I've seen. It
consisted of a two gallon bag with a filter set in the bottom.
After filling the bag with water, we'd hang it in a tree and let
gravity do the work normally done by a pump. It took some time to
fill a quart water bottle, maybe an hour and a half - when the
filter was clean. We ended up having to wash the filter about once
a day.

Just about dusk, we set up camp. Wing had made a freezer pack
(basically an oilskin sack) and I grilled hamburgers, small red
potatoes, and sweet onions, over an open fire. We set up the tent
in the best site available for a good breeze. Unfortunately, the
site gets enough use so the ground was like concrete. I dug hip and
shoulder holes before we set up the tent, which helped some.
Sara and I went swimming before bed-time, and we layed in a supply
of dry wood for morning, even though the sky was red with promise of
a sunny tomorrow.

There is nothing quite like being out in the beauty of God's
creation.  No phones, no motors, no roads, no traffic noise, and the
wolves howling at the moon and the loon's haunting song of praise
across the waterways.  I even enjoyed the wiporwill in the trees
behind our tent who kept me awake for an extra half hour.

The red sky apparently meant nothing for the night, as we had a bad
lightning storm and strong winds - which blew out all the pegs on
one side of the tent. Only the weight of our bodies kept the tent
from blowing away, though the poles kept it up-right during the
night. I'd insisted on putting all the packs in the tent during the
night - premonition, I guess. Anyway, it turned out to be a good
idea, as everything was (mostly) dry.

I started the fire, and looked over to see a velvet fork-horn
watching me from about 20 feet away. I ignored him and went about
my cooking tasks. About 10 minutes later, he'd finally seen
everything he wanted to and wandered off.

Wing had brought a grill (I couldn't believe she'd brought it - no
wonder the food pack was so heavy) and we picked blue-berries and
cooked blueberry pancakes with home made maple syrup.

Between being beat from our exertions the day before, and getting
little sleep due to the lightning storm, we decided to spend the day
where we were. Wing and Sara swam across the bay and back and we
explored our bay and several to the north and south. We fished, but
it was just too hot, and we never got a nibble.

This area had seen some heavy logging operations around the turn of
the last century, and we found numerous objects left behind. The
only thing I brought back were two lugs off a 20 gallon kettle - to
be used on one of my syruping kettles at home. Shame about the
kettle we found. It would have made a great syruping kettle itself,
except it had been the target in numerous impromptu shooting matches.

Back from shore, a ways, we also found what appeared to be part of a
steam engine and other debris of an unknown nature. All these
things were well camoflaged by the forest which had grown up around
it in the intervening years. We found a lot of blacksmith made
chain, which I would have loved to haul out, but just didn't care
for the weight of the stuff.

We ran into two campsites of other canoers. Typical cidiots - Mpls,
MN, and Portland, OR. Very unfriendly. Much different than what I
remember from my youth. One of the fellas had not taken care with
his rented canoe (a brand new We-no-nah), the night before, and it
had been taken by the wind and had wrapped itself around a tree. He
asked me if I didn't think that was an "Act of God" which would
leave him without liability for the damage when he returned it to
the outfitter. I could only shrug. You rent a canoe - you are
responsible for it.

For supper, we grilled steaks, toast, and more potatoes. Wing does
such a good job with the freezer pack that, even with the 90 degree
temps, there was still frost between the steaks. I'm not sure how
she manages that.

Around the evening fire, we sang the old songs, and discussed our
trip - which didn't seem to be proggressing too far. We decided,
given the heat, we would stay at the site we were on, and make day
trips to surrounding lakes, rather than travel from site to site.
The sunset was as glorious as I've seen and after it set the sky was
red as blood. I gathered no wood for morning fire, as I figured we
should be safe from rain during the night.

As soon as we bedded down, we heard a cougar give 8 or 10 short loud
screams to the southwest of us.

During the night I discovered my weather forcasting error when we
had a worse storm than we'd had the night before. I lay awake
wishing I'd checked to see where the largest tree was in the
campsite - hoping that it was a suitable distance from the tent (it
was) so we wouldn't end up being the ground for a lightning strike.
Several strikes were very close. We didn't hear about it until we
got back out, but a few miles away, on Basswood Lake, a woman was
killed, and her fiance injured and trapped for 24 hours when a large
red pine fell on their tent.

Our pegs were lifted out of the ground again, but we all thought
heavy, and the tent stayed in place. We had some water runoff run
beneath the tent, but we managed well enough, if a bit damp.

In the morning we were up early. It was amazingly cold and I kicked
myself for not setting aside dry wood and tinder, but if there is
one thing I can do, it is start a fire with wet wood, and I had the
kids come with me and watch what I selected from the forest and how
to make fire. We soon had a roaring fire which did much to lift our
spirits when we had another rain come through. We left off the
breakfast we'd prepared, and re-heated portions of pancake, steak,
and made hashbrowns from left over boiled potatoes.

The sun cleared off the clouds, the heat set in, and we set out for
Horse Lake and Horse River. We went four in the Bell canoe, with
one small pack for raingear and a lunch. We coasted down the lake
with a tail wind and to the portages into Horse. The sky
blackened again on the final portage into Horse, and we wondered
about turning back. The lake looked pretty wild for waves and Tim
found a good blueberry patch on the high ground. We filled hats and
a bag, getting about a gallon of the largest wild blueberries I've
ever seen, in about an hour and a half. By this time, the sky had
cleared, and we continued on. Several of the portages had downed
trees, from the storm the night before, and we had to shove the
canoe over the top, or under the downed trees, and pick it up on the
other side.

Horse River was not as rocky as I remembered it. Maybe enough rain
had fallen in the last couple of storms to bring it up a bit. One
of the portages was pretty much swamp, and we did not enjoy it at
all. Coming out in the Basswood River, we checked out Lower
Basswood Falls and the Wheelbarrow Falls. I told the kids I'd run
Wheelbarrow Falls once, when I was a kid, and they informed me I was
nuts. Looking at the falls, I had to agree.  We had lunch on the
Ontario side - as much of Canada as we saw this trip.

As it was getting late in the day, we decided against going north to
Table Rock and the pictographs. I don't care to navigate in the
dark, and it was many portages back to our campsite. As it was, we
spent some anxious moments on our return when the weather came up as
we were crossing Horse Lake. I was glad it was just us, with no
novices, four in a canoe, crossing some big water.

We got back to camp tired as all get out, gathered dry wood for the
morning, had hot chocolate and coffee (no one was hungry due to the
heat) and dug a larder to keep the blueberries. During the night
there was another storm. This time we got pretty wet.

In the morning, it was hotter than blazes right at dawn. We set out
the bedding and clothes to dry and had a family council. We
decided to go out rather than stay a couple of more nights. The
kids were quite put out that they had no friends along, and Tim, in
particular, was being a wet blanket. Sara likes the woods and
swimming, and canoeing, a lot more, but Tim's attitude was getting
her down. Wing hadn't had a wink of sleep since we started, and the
concrete consistency of our tent site wasn't doing much for my sleep
hours either. Wing and Sara were both very red from the sun and
Wing was having some heat exhaustion problems. Another week would
have been fine with me, but I didn't bring my family out in the
wilds to torture them, and we decided to head out.

Going out was conderably more taxing than coming in, The heat made
the long portage a very slow process. When we reached the
trailhead, the temp was 96 degrees F, and I'm sure it was that on
the long portage as well. We did no double packing, and I rested
the canoe half way cross the portage, something I almost never do.
We moved slowwww.

Big wind blew up on the final leg, but it blew over with no rain,
and the wind felt great - even if it meant harder paddling.

We walked the canoes up the last rapids, passed up the two dollar a
can beer at the parking area, drove to Ely, and had pizza and cold
soda pop with plenty of ice. It felt so good!

The next day at home, as we were unpacking, my brother Tom phoned
and invited us to canoe the rapids on the Brule River. We jumped in
the car and ran over to the Brule to canoe with Tom, his wife and
kids, and her two sisters and brothers-in law and their families. We
rented canoes (I'd much rather do rapids in someone else's canoe)
and we grabbed a new 16 foot Mad River. I like the Mad River's for
this sort of thing as they have a "V" bottom which allows you to
rock to the side, retain stability, and miss rocks. Most of the rest
of the canoes (we had seven) were Oldtown Brand. Sara was governai
in one of the canoes, and did very well. Wing and I were the only
ones who made the run dry. Wing was avant in our canoe and has
become very profficient with her bow steering. We touched a couple
of rocks, but one of Tom's brother-in-laws, hit a rock cliff, head
on, on a sharp turn, and dumped completely. Several of the kids
grabbed "strainers" and dumped that way. We stopped on a beautiful
sand beach, half way down, and had a bit of refreshment, while the
kids swam.

I hadn't done the Brule in many years, and it was a good way to end
our canoe holiday. No portages, and plenty of excitement.

That evening, we made four blueberry pies with the wild blueberries
we'd picked on Horse Portage. Nothing like it.

Pierre

I enjoyed your tales of adventure; I've had a few like it myself, with
variations, of course!  ...Just one concern: when you said you kept all your
packs in your tent, I presume that was all except your food pack which -- of
course(?) -- you would have hung from a tree.  Right?
Greg


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In canoeontario@..., "G. Derbyshire" <gregderb@e...>
wrote:
> I enjoyed your tales of adventure; I've had a few like it myself,
with variations, of course!  ...Just one concern: when you said you
kept all your packs in your tent, I presume that was all except your
food pack which -- of course(?) -- you would have hung from a tree.
Right?
> Greg
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Greg:

Ahh, no.  Like my food dry too.

You are right, of course.  Because of bears (which we did see) food
packs should be out of the tent.  From the actions of these bears,
however, I just didn't think we'd have any problem - and I was
right.  They were startled by us and took off in a hurry.   With all
the food in the woods, this time of year, only very wild bears
(unfamiliar with humans) - or very tame bears (too familiar with
humans) will bother you. Of course, it's a little hard to tell the
difference as they don't hang signs around their necks.  You can
sometimes tell a very wild bear, however.  They look at you like
they've never seen one of your kind before.  They can be very
curious.  No fear.  This can be a big problem.

I did hide the food pack when we were away from camp.

I've found you have less problem with hiding the food pack (if
everything is well sealed so there is no food odor) off in the woods
and off any game trails, than you do hanging it in a tree.  Bears
use the easiest way to get to camp - just like people.  I've seen
bear get other people's food packs out of trees - no matter how they
were hung.  If the bear is hungry enough, he will climb out on a
limb until the limb breaks, drop from higher in the tree unto a rope
strung between two trees, breaking the rope, or whatever he has to
do to get that pack.  Truth is, most of the time at night, I put my
food pack directly in front of the tent door with all my kettles on
top of it.  When I hear the kettles crash, I run out and grab the
food pack.  You have to be quick though.  Once the bear gets hold of
it - he thinks it is his. You have to act while the issue is still
in doubt - or you go hungry for the rest of the week.

Disclaimer:  Just because I'm stupid enough to deal with it this
way - gives you no right to be stupid too.

P.

Check these people out:
http://ca.geocities.com/wwcanoeclub/outdoor.html

It's the Waterloo Wellington Canoe Club, and they do a
lot of paddling on the Grand. In fact, they have
arranged a series of day paddles that will take you
vrom the headwaters of the Grand to Lake Erie.


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com

Pierre:

Thanks for that last disclaimer!  I, too, have had bears wandering through my
site, but our food packs have always been strung up in a large tree; sometimes
from a limb overhanging the lake we're camped on, (all in dry bags, of course). 
Usually, we hang our food well away from the site, and usually not on a pathway.
However, bears have good enough noses that they can smell food from quite far
off -- even when it's sealed well, and even if the pickings are good in nature,
they'll come by for a free lunch if it's available.  As well as bears, other
critters can also smell food in tents, so we never allow ANY food in ours tents
EVER.  So far, we haven't had problems with large or small beasts trying to nose
their way into our tents, and I attribute that to no lingering food smells.

I really think you're playing roulette with nature.  You know the story: you can
go years, even decades using a practice that is unsafe with no trouble at all,
and then when you least expect it, BANG!  Last year, we met some experienced
campers in Algonquin, and their food pack was ripped open by racoons, despite
having it hung in a tree.  The coons also ripped their way into their tent that
night to gain access to their day pack, which had gorp in it.  (We fed them the
next evening when we met them on a portage, and they hadn't eaten all day.)

In another experience, several years back, a bear walked into a site, (not
mine), scared away the campers, and helped itself to their steak dinner right
off the grill!  To me, the risk isn't worth it!  However, we all live
dangerously in different ways!

Happy (and bear free) camping!

Greg


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Robert,
I was at the Canoe Museum many years ago when it was still
in a couple of barns just outside Dwight, Ontatrio (or maybe it was
Dorset, the're right next to each other) but I know they moved to
Peterbrough a few years ago.  They really did have a lot of great old
canoes and you're right, everyone who's the least bit interested in
canoes should check the place out.  I went to the web site and have
downloaded a great picture of Bill Mason that I have now made our new
Group Photo.
Paul

--- In canoeontario@..., "Robert" <robroy95@y...> wrote:
> I was in Peterbrough, Ontario on the weekend and got to go to the
> Canadian Canoe Museum.  For anyone who has never been there, you
> should try to visit it some day, it was really great.  Check out
> their website.
> http://www.canoemuseum.net/

--- In canoeontario@..., "G. Derbyshire" <gregderb@e...>
wrote:
> Pierre:
>
> Thanks for that last disclaimer!  I, too, have had bears wandering
through my site, but our food packs have always been strung up in a
large tree; sometimes from a limb overhanging the lake we're camped
on, (all in dry bags, of course).  Usually, we hang our food well
away from the site, and usually not on a pathway.  However, bears
have good enough noses that they can smell food from quite far off --
  even when it's sealed well, and even if the pickings are good in
nature, they'll come by for a free lunch if it's available.  As well
as bears, other critters can also smell food in tents, so we never
allow ANY food in ours tents EVER.  So far, we haven't had problems
with large or small beasts trying to nose their way into our tents,
and I attribute that to no lingering food smells.


Greg:

I will agree you should never eat in the tent, and especially never
allow anything in that has been fried or cooked.  Sealed unprepared
camp foods - well, you are right, good rule of thumb not to have
food in the tent.

Bears, like any wild animal, have an unpredictibility factor built
in.  This being said, I've had a great deal of experience with them,
both here and in Alaska.  Though I'm Metis, I'm a member of the bear
clan of Ojibwe, not that that means anything, but folks in my family
have always been interested in bear and their ways and it is a
subject of interest to us all.  I grew up in an area with a great
many bear, guided, hunted bear for many years, and my job as a peace
officer requires dealing with them on an on-going basis, usually
injured in some respect, so I do have some familiarity with them.
In all the years I've dealt with them, I've found them much more
likely to enter an unoccupied cabin or house than to enter an
occupied tent.  I've only had two experiences with them entering a
tent.  One of these involved a family from New Jersy who decided to
buy some Kentucky Fried Chicken, return to a campground, and eat the
chicken in their tent.  This occurred during a bad berry year.  The
other experience was personal and involved a "wild" bear, in which
the bear was totally inexperienced (my take) with humans, and
curious about them.  This was in upper Ontario in the early spring
when, again, food for bear was scarce.  This does not mean a bear
would not enter a tent during a time of good feed - it just makes it
less likely.

Bears that have knowledge of humans are always faced with two
conflicting emotions when entering a campsite.  Fear and hunger.  In
a year, or time of the year, when they are well fed, fear most often
wins out.  If they are poorly fed, it is a constant battle, for
them, between fear and hunger.  During a confrontation with humans,
they also sense fear, or the lack of it, from the human they
confront.  While I am cautious around bear, I do not fear them, and
have chased them out of camp many times.

In the case of our latest trip, if the bear had entered the tent, I
would simply have shot it.  Bears do not belong in tents.  This is,
of course, an option I do not have when visiting Ontario, and I
would take more precautions.

I've not found bears to be good at sniffing out sealed food in a
hidden food pack.  The cook site is what usually draws them, or
wherever you clean fish and dispose of the offal.  I have found
bears to be good at removing packs from trees - hence my preference
for hiding the food pack off the trail rather than leaving it
hanging from a tree branch.  This is not my idea alone, but has
become a common practise among the guides in our area.

Once again with the disclaimer:  Opinons, etc.  Everyone has one.

One interesting bit of bear behavior concerning a too tame bear:

Our area game supervisor has requested that I travel to a certain
portage where people who double portage return to their canoe, after
hauling the first pack across, only to find all the packs missing.
When the unlucky canoist travels back across the portage to pick up
the pack he's already brought across - it too is missing.  This bear
definitely associates packs with food!  The game people have been
laying for this bear numerous times, but the bear has not been
complient.  I've been asked to go up and shoot the bear.  The number
of ripped up packs, back off the portage, is at 200 - and climbing.

P.

Yahoo is making changes to the 'Groups' setup, but they don't effect
us to a large extent, the main one being that attachments to messages
will no longer be stored in the archives.

The other change that will effect people is:
"Files and Photos:
You will now need a web membership to access a group's Files and
Photos areas.  To make sure you have web memberships to all of your
groups, please visit this page: http://groups.yahoo.com/memwiz"

I suggest that you check and make sure that you will be able to
see the photos and files section.

Paul (Ontario Water Walker)

While I'd imagine most folks in upper Ontario are into harvest
already, and some of ours is already ripe, we are planning to go out
for harvest the first week of September.  The rice looks good,
there's been lot of sun, and no water fluctuation to ruin the crop.
Every year, I say I'm going to be all ready long before season, and
every year I'm running around at the last minute trying to get set.

I'd decided last year to change canoes.  The 1936 Oldotwn is a good
canoe, but ricing in a ribbed canoe just isn't as easy as one with a
smooth bottom inside.  I have an 18 year old prospector stripper
that had the bottom layer delaminate.  I removed the old glass and
put on new, using epoxy, which I wasn't familiar with, and ended up
with some bubbles.  Other than the damage to my pride, it won't be
too much of a problem, but I never got out to get new cedar inwales
(I have the outwales) and will be using ash instead.  The original
gunwales were white oak and, while they will last forever, the extra
weight has annoyed me for years.  Thin thwartes, no yoke, and no
seats will make this a perfect ricing canoe.

I'm also shaping a new push-pole as I dropped a tree on my old pole
sometime this summer.  I'm shaping it with the drawknife out of a
balsam fir of slightly larger than needed diameter into a 16 foot by
one and 1/4 inch pole.

I also need to make two new sets of knockers from white cedar as we
will be having two or three harvesters in the canoe while I pole (my
kids have been drafted).

New tires have been purchased for the camper as Wing, my wife,
refuses to sleep on the ground any longer.  We used to set up on a
high spot on the west end of our favorite ricing lake, even when we
tried other lakes, but this year we will be residents of a forest
service campground.  Not sure I'm in favor of this particular change.

The kids are busy scrubbing the 25 gallon kettles (we use the
syruping kettles to parch the rice), I've located our canvas drying
tarps and the new mogasins for dancing on the rice, I have enough
cedar splits to make three dancing pits, and the winowing trays were
in the last place I looked.

If I can just get the canoe finished, we may be in for another great
ricing season.

P.

Now that it's September I guess you've all made a trip or two over
the past few months, I unfortunately, was unable to make the trips I
had planned for July and August as my wife suffered a stroke in
July.  I'm just glad it didn't happen a few days later than it did
because I would have been deep in Algonquin Park.  In any event, I'd
like to hear about any of your trips - sort of live the life
vicariously.
Paul

List:

We have purchased a small titanium wood stove for early spring and
late fall outings and are wondering what kind of canvas tent to
purchase to go along with it.  Wall tents seem too large and heavy.
Anyone have any experience with this or thoughts about it?

P.

You want to put a wood stove "inside" your tent?


--- In canoeontario@..., "pjjgirard" <pjjgirard@y...>
wrote:
>
> List:
>
> We have purchased a small titanium wood stove for early spring and
> late fall outings and are wondering what kind of canvas tent to
> purchase to go along with it.  Wall tents seem too large and
heavy.
> Anyone have any experience with this or thoughts about it?
>
> P.

Hi There!
Your best bet probably is a small wall tent or a quite
large self supporting nylon one( although the prospect
of something burning inside a nylon tent scares the
heck out of ME!)
There are many army surplus wall tents with the proper
ring for exiting a smoke pipe on them as well....
Recently, I was in Algonquin on the Western Upland
trail.... we used a tarp set up low to the ground( no
fly and open to the elements) It rained cats and dogs
one night and despite a small amount of spatter,
remained warm and toasty.Not good during bug season,
and prolonged bad weather, but extremely light and
fun!
Good insulation from the ground and a good cold rated
sleeping bag with a lightweight nylon tent(can the
stove idea) if a canvas wall tent proves to be too
heavy.
Good luck and would like to hear about your final
choice
Regards
Peter
  --- pjjgirard <pjjgirard@...> wrote:
---------------------------------

List:

We have purchased a small titanium wood stove for
early spring and
late fall outings and are wondering what kind of
canvas tent to
purchase to go along with it.  Wall tents seem too
large and heavy.
Anyone have any experience with this or thoughts about
it?

P.


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Paul:

Your response makes me think I just got off the ship from Mars
(LOL!).

Been doing it all my life, running winter trap line, and camping out
while netting white fish and ice fishing.  Those tents, however,
were larger and heavier, and would not be anything I'd want to haul
along in a canoe.  Also, bought a stove (weighs four pounds) for
once, instead of making them out of oil cans, ammo boxes, and such.

P.

--- In canoeontario@..., "Paul Bray"
<ontario_water_walker@y...> wrote:
> You want to put a wood stove "inside" your tent?
>
>
> --- In canoeontario@..., "pjjgirard" <pjjgirard@y...>
> wrote:
> >
> > List:
> >
> > We have purchased a small titanium wood stove for early spring
and
> > late fall outings and are wondering what kind of canvas tent to
> > purchase to go along with it.  Wall tents seem too large and
> heavy.
> > Anyone have any experience with this or thoughts about it?
> >
> > P.

Peter:

We used wall tents when I was young and guiding for my pa.  I think
those things must have weighed about 45 pounds

Nylon is out - for the reason you mention. Anything military (that
I'm aware of) is too heavy.  I've been looking at the snowtrekker
tent (18 pounds) by Empire Canvas, but the tent requires special
poles and would be miserable (single tipi style door) in any kind of
mild weather.  I've been wondering about a pyramid tent (one pole)
as I could secure a pole on site, rather than carry it with me, or
tie off a rope between two trees.  I would order this tent with two
doors, opposite each other, should the weather turn nice.

We often use tarps set up as diamond flys in summer weather.  A 12'X
12' piece of mosquito netting doesn't weigh much and I usually have
one or two along "just in case."

Pierre


--- In canoeontario@..., Peter Lawrence
<pteestrider@y...> wrote:
> Hi There!
> Your best bet probably is a small wall tent or a quite
> large self supporting nylon one( although the prospect
> of something burning inside a nylon tent scares the
> heck out of ME!)
> There are many army surplus wall tents with the proper
> ring for exiting a smoke pipe on them as well....
> Recently, I was in Algonquin on the Western Upland
> trail.... we used a tarp set up low to the ground( no
> fly and open to the elements) It rained cats and dogs
> one night and despite a small amount of spatter,
> remained warm and toasty.Not good during bug season,
> and prolonged bad weather, but extremely light and
> fun!
> Good insulation from the ground and a good cold rated
> sleeping bag with a lightweight nylon tent(can the
> stove idea) if a canvas wall tent proves to be too
> heavy.
> Good luck and would like to hear about your final
> choice
> Regards
> Peter
>  --- pjjgirard <pjjgirard@y...> wrote:
> ---------------------------------
>
> List:
>
> We have purchased a small titanium wood stove for
> early spring and
> late fall outings and are wondering what kind of
> canvas tent to
> purchase to go along with it.  Wall tents seem too
> large and heavy.
> Anyone have any experience with this or thoughts about
> it?
>
> P.
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> canoeontario-unsubscribe@...
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
> Terms of Service.
>
>
_____________________________________________________________________
_
> Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca

Hi Again!
I dont know what your determination level is but if
you are interested in good quality canvas tents, there
is an outfit called MacPherson(sp?) in the NWT(i think
it was Hay River)that made and I believe still making
tents like what you require.....try doing a search for
them. Somewhere, I have a brochure of theirs showing
basecamp type canvas tents.....Good luck Pierre!
Peter
  --- pjjgirard <pjjgirard@...> wrote:
---------------------------------
Peter:

We used wall tents when I was young and guiding for my
pa.  I think
those things must have weighed about 45 pounds

Nylon is out - for the reason you mention. Anything
military (that
I'm aware of) is too heavy.  I've been looking at the
snowtrekker
tent (18 pounds) by Empire Canvas, but the tent
requires special
poles and would be miserable (single tipi style door)
in any kind of
mild weather.  I've been wondering about a pyramid
tent (one pole)
as I could secure a pole on site, rather than carry it
with me, or
tie off a rope between two trees.  I would order this
tent with two
doors, opposite each other, should the weather turn
nice.

We often use tarps set up as diamond flys in summer
weather.  A 12'X
12' piece of mosquito netting doesn't weigh much and I
usually have
one or two along "just in case."

Pierre


--- In canoeontario@..., Peter Lawrence
<pteestrider@y...> wrote:
> Hi There!
> Your best bet probably is a small wall tent or a
quite
> large self supporting nylon one( although the
prospect
> of something burning inside a nylon tent scares the
> heck out of ME!)
> There are many army surplus wall tents with the
proper
> ring for exiting a smoke pipe on them as well....
> Recently, I was in Algonquin on the Western Upland
> trail.... we used a tarp set up low to the ground(
no
> fly and open to the elements) It rained cats and
dogs
> one night and despite a small amount of spatter,
> remained warm and toasty.Not good during bug season,
> and prolonged bad weather, but extremely light and
> fun!
> Good insulation from the ground and a good cold
rated
> sleeping bag with a lightweight nylon tent(can the
> stove idea) if a canvas wall tent proves to be too
> heavy.
> Good luck and would like to hear about your final
> choice
> Regards
> Peter
>  --- pjjgirard <pjjgirard@y...> wrote:
> ---------------------------------
>
> List:
>
> We have purchased a small titanium wood stove for
> early spring and
> late fall outings and are wondering what kind of
> canvas tent to
> purchase to go along with it.  Wall tents seem too
> large and heavy.
> Anyone have any experience with this or thoughts
about
> it?
>
> P.
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> canoeontario-unsubscribe@...
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
> Terms of Service.
>
>
_____________________________________________________________________
_
> Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca


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Peter:

I tried that spelling and all I came up with were sites inviting me
to view Elle Macpherson nude.  Located the tent factory under
McPherson, but there was very little information and no catalog.

P.

--- In canoeontario@..., Peter Lawrence
<pteestrider@y...> wrote:
> Hi Again!
> I dont know what your determination level is but if
> you are interested in good quality canvas tents, there
> is an outfit called MacPherson(sp?) in the NWT(i think
> it was Hay River)that made and I believe still making
> tents like what you require.....try doing a search for
> them. Somewhere, I have a brochure of theirs showing
> basecamp type canvas tents.....Good luck Pierre!
> Peter
>  --- pjjgirard <pjjgirard@y...> wrote:
> ---------------------------------
> Peter:
>
> We used wall tents when I was young and guiding for my
> pa.  I think
> those things must have weighed about 45 pounds
>
> Nylon is out - for the reason you mention. Anything
> military (that
> I'm aware of) is too heavy.  I've been looking at the
> snowtrekker
> tent (18 pounds) by Empire Canvas, but the tent
> requires special
> poles and would be miserable (single tipi style door)
> in any kind of
> mild weather.  I've been wondering about a pyramid
> tent (one pole)
> as I could secure a pole on site, rather than carry it
> with me, or
> tie off a rope between two trees.  I would order this
> tent with two
> doors, opposite each other, should the weather turn
> nice.
>
> We often use tarps set up as diamond flys in summer
> weather.  A 12'X
> 12' piece of mosquito netting doesn't weigh much and I
> usually have
> one or two along "just in case."
>
> Pierre
>
>
> --- In canoeontario@..., Peter Lawrence
> <pteestrider@y...> wrote:
> > Hi There!
> > Your best bet probably is a small wall tent or a
> quite
> > large self supporting nylon one( although the
> prospect
> > of something burning inside a nylon tent scares the
> > heck out of ME!)
> > There are many army surplus wall tents with the
> proper
> > ring for exiting a smoke pipe on them as well....
> > Recently, I was in Algonquin on the Western Upland
> > trail.... we used a tarp set up low to the ground(
> no
> > fly and open to the elements) It rained cats and
> dogs
> > one night and despite a small amount of spatter,
> > remained warm and toasty.Not good during bug season,
> > and prolonged bad weather, but extremely light and
> > fun!
> > Good insulation from the ground and a good cold
> rated
> > sleeping bag with a lightweight nylon tent(can the
> > stove idea) if a canvas wall tent proves to be too
> > heavy.
> > Good luck and would like to hear about your final
> > choice
> > Regards
> > Peter
> >  --- pjjgirard <pjjgirard@y...> wrote:
> > ---------------------------------
> >
> > List:
> >
> > We have purchased a small titanium wood stove for
> > early spring and
> > late fall outings and are wondering what kind of
> > canvas tent to
> > purchase to go along with it.  Wall tents seem too
> > large and heavy.
> > Anyone have any experience with this or thoughts
> about
> > it?
> >
> > P.
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > canoeontario-unsubscribe@...
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
> > Terms of Service.
> >
> >
>
_____________________________________________________________________
> _
> > Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> canoeontario-unsubscribe@...
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
> Terms of Service.
>
>
_____________________________________________________________________
_
> Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca

My wife, brother, sister in law and I have decided to paddle Woods
Caribou PP June 15 - 26 next year.  Anyone on the list done any
paddling there?  What would be a good route for the plus 50 crowd?

Pierre

When I was young, we had four tents. Three were small wall tents
used for outfitting, but when the family went canoeing, we traveled
in style. We had a 10X10 umbrella tent, a "#2 Arrowhead" made by
Duluth Tent and Awning (company that makes Duluth Packs). It was an
umbrella tent made in the 1920s or 1930s for car touring, and it
weighed about 125 pounds with the poles made of water pipe. It had
an awning and beautiful little screened windows with cloth flaps on
the outside that you could raise or lower from inside the tent. I
remember watching pa carry it on bad portages, up to his thighs in
mud and water, and hearing my mother yell, "Don't get the tent wet!"
He'd give her a little grin and trudge on. We seldom saw others on
the trail in those days.

It was awful hard to get that tent anywhere, but once we set up
camp - we were home. At night a lantern would hang from the
umbrella poles inside the tent. We always tried to have the door
facing east so we could be wakened by the sunrise, and be out of the
prevailing western wind. We each had our own place inside the tent,
though I remember fighting with my brother about who got to lay
under the window. Pa always lay to one side of the door so he could
jump up and grab the food pack away from marauding bears.

Our camping gear back then would be considered rather primitive by
today's standards. We had Duluth packs, but the tent was too large
to fit in one and had to be carried over the shoulder like a
sailor's duffle bag. Our food pack consisted of a wooden box full
of canned food and potatoes, carried in a Duluth pack. Our "cook
kit" consisted of great grandfather's 16 inch skillet, a Hudson Bay
kettle, enamelware cups and some pie pans to eat off of. My parents
bedding was wool blankets, though we kids had sleeping bags.

Our sleeping bags were the same bedding we used at home. Early on,
mother found we kids were inimical to sheets on beds and used some
old quilts grandmother had made to sew into sleeping bags. These
quilts were not the fancy things found today in craft shops. They
were made up of squares, eight inches or smaller, cut from old men's
wool coats and pants, lined with worn out wool socks and worn out
wool long johns. They were warm but heavy.

When we canoed in the BWCA, I don't recall anyone ever having a map
until sometime in the middle 1960s. Our trips were usually family
affairs with uncles, aunts, cousins, and grandparents along, and
grandfather knew the area like his own backyard. In a way it was.
He was raised there.

Our trips were always, ostensibly, about food, usually fish. We
would bring home enough fish, wrapped in a certain kind of moss, to
supplement our diet for several months. It wasn't all about food,
but that was the cover story, and we stuck to it.

We hunted bear up that way too. You haven't really portaged until
you've portaged a bear. My family was always big on bear. We would
can the meat and render the fat to bear oil. Pies and pastry baked
with bear oil cannot be matched.

Sometimes we would go further afield, to Nipigon, or Clearwater
West. but always in canoes. Crossing Nipigon was always done with
great care. Grandfather, pa, and my uncles would stand by the
waters edge and study the sky with great concentration. It was 12
miles to the first island - which did you no good - as the cliffs
allowed no landing. If the weather turned stormy we would lash the
canoes together with poles brought for that purpose.

I remember one particular Nipigon storm, that had escaped the
prognostication of grandfather and the uncles. Pa, paddling hard as
he was able, turned to me and my brothers, in the bottom of the
canoe, with his eyes large as saucers and said, "Bail harder!" I
realized he was frightened, and it made me bail harder than I ever
had before or since. I believe it was just before the next Nipigon
trip that pa bought a 16 foot boat with a motor.

Pierre

Two hundred kilometres north of Toronto, Ontario lays the
town of Huntsville and the western terminus of Ontario Highway 60.
This two lane, undulating blacktop runs east through one of the most
beautiful areas of the country for 400 kilometres to the nation's
capital in Ottawa.  For 80 kilometres of it's length, the road
travels through the southwestern corner of Algonquin Provincial Park -
  7,725 square kilometres of Ontario  "wilderness".
	 The name Algonquin dates from the seventeenth century when
French voyageurs first encountered the indigenous people along the
Ottawa River valley.   The term Algonquin, however, is actually a
Micmac word meaning "people who spear fish from the front of a
canoe".   Native North Americans have always been known as men of
few words.  Now we know why.
	 Many people have made, and continue to make, the erroneous
assumption that Algonquin Park is wilderness, but it is not now, nor
was it ever so.  Well, okay maybe back in the 17th and 18th
century's when the coureur de bois were running amuck.  And of
course
for about 5000 years before that when Algonquin speaking nomadic
peoples ranged throughout the territory. But not since the
1830's,
when the first pioneering loggers entered the region to harvest the
great red and white pines, has the Algonquin Park area been
wilderness.  I use the term "harvest" lightly.  I would think
that
harvesting implies that you intend to re-plant.   The wholesale
destruction of the old-growth forest can hardly be called
harvesting.  However, it is not my intention to make political
statements or beat the environmental drum, I simply want to stress
that a person would have to go a lot further north than Algonquin in
order to find wilderness.  In fact, it may well be that in the 21st
century there is no real wilderness left in Canada - or anywhere for
that matter.
	 It was in 1893 that James Dickson and Alexander Kirkwood
convinced the government of the day to set aside these thousands of
acres of woodland for a Provincial Park and the name Algonquin was
chosen.  By 1940 there were logging restrictions in place that
prohibited the cutting of trees on islands, along shorelines and near
portage routes.  Yes they were still logging the park in 1940 - and
they still do so today.  In fact, Algonquin supports, along with
logging, several drive-in campgrounds, summer camps, resorts and even
private cottages and as disagreeable as this may seem to the
wilderness canoeist, it is possible to enter the park at one of the
many access points, paddle for a day into the backcountry, and
achieve the feel of the wild - to sit by a campfire in the evening
and listen to the haunting cry of the loons, the whisper of the wind
in the pines, and if your really lucky, the howling of a pack of
wolves somewhere off in the distance.  There are still places where
you can set up camp and never see another person for days at a time
or paddle all day down a winding river and meet no one other than the
occasional moose.  You can still answer natures call wide open to the
world on one of the famous park thunder boxes and you can still strip
down after lunch and skinny dip in a cool, pristine lake.  You can
even drink the water.
	 There are those who would argue this last statement and I
have often met with canoe trippers who had overburdened themselves by
carrying their own bottles of drinking water into the interior, but
in all my years of paddling through the Park, I have never felt the
need to do so.  It's true that I have always carried those little
red
iodine pills, and dropped one into my canteen whenever I have been
forced to obtain my drinking water from a river or small stream, but
in most cases I would simply wait until I was out in the middle of a
lake, lower my canteen over the side, and let it fill with pure,
cool northern nectar.  In 25 summers I have never felt any adverse
effects - maybe I've just been lucky.
	 I don't know how many lakes the boundaries of the Park
enclose - there are literally hundreds.   From Acanthus to Xantippe,
from big, beautiful Opeongo to lily covered Spatterdock Pond, crystal
clear Whiskey Jack to the aptly named Ink Lake, Launer in the north
to Kingscote at the tip of the southern panhandle, and from Big Bob
in the west to McManus on the eastern border.
	 At one time I kept an inventory of all the lakes I have
paddled upon, but I stopped counting after a hundred.  That was
several years ago.  I can only say this with any certainty, each lake
is different and each lake, in it's own way, is beautiful.  The
entire Park is beautiful.  That's why I return year after year.
	  Many times, as I have humped my canoe over some torturous
portage, paddled against some brutal headwind or sat dejected in the
pouring rain wondering why I'm doing this and why I'm here at
all I
swear that, "This is my last trip, I've seen enough of this
place and
I'm never coming back".  But at the end of every trip, even
while I'm
still in my car driving home, I begin planning my next Algonquin
adventure.  Why?  Because there's really no other place quite
like
Algonquin Park.

Great post about Algonquin Park.  A bit long but a good read with
some interesting facts.  You're right about one thing..."there's
really no other place quite like Algonquin Park."

Hello,

greetings from Brazil. Yes, I´m a brazilian paddler in a Ontario,CA
group!! :)  Well, I´ve been in Canada 3 times, but paddled just once,
what caused a GREAT desire to get there again for a long canoe trip.
Maybe next year...who knows?

Well, that message is just to say hello and to say that anyone
planning a canoe trip in Brazil may get in touch for help, equipments
etc.

Best wishes,

Tony Osse
www.companhiadecanoagem.com.br

Hello paddlers....

I also am new to the group. To introduce myself... I
am primarily an Adirondack backcountry paddler and
guide, with several boats including wood stripper
standard canoe, guideboat, and war canoe (for the ADK
90 Miler race). I also have a carbon/kevlar Hornbeck
Lost Pond 10 ft that I most often bushwhack with. Oh
yes, and an old little used lightweight model Grumman.
Though I will never be finished exploring small ponds
in my local backcountry (Nessmuk's home region) I am
equipped to travel and am located in northern NY
within a short distance of the border.

good waters,
Paul

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