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15467Re: [TGC] [gaiapc] Vatican Workshop

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  • Richard Balfour
    13 Nov, 2017
      Name one place that needs more people.
      Problem areas for the most part are due to overshoot, overpopulation, but labeled shortages of water, food, oil, etc.
      Mass migration with current numbers on the planet means the trampling of the Edens these people flee to, starting with destabilization of the host country just from culture shock when it happens so fast, note the peaceful kingdoms of Northern Europe, ......
      Not to be heartless, just fix problems where they start. Of course many of those are not totally of their own making when they are pawns of bigger countries swiping their resources, starting with the MIddle East.
      I know this  is hypocrisy, says he living on an island, built in moat.
      That is why one moves to such places and notes the impact you as a refugee have on the placid place you move to,  finding young people even in the hinterland cannot afford to have a place of their own anymore as those with more resources push them out.
      All a factor of too many people; Hong Kong repatriation made Vancouver unaffordable for the kids who grew up there, in fact even adults have to move as the growth and gold plating of the city means you have to move. And then the dominos fall.
      Homelessness is a global norm now.  No title to land. No access to the commons. Agenda 21 of the UN says that is the plan.  A factor of too many people. Then before Davos, the off agenda discussion is how to cut population radically, then at Davos, the hand wringing.
      There is no solution here, that is the problem. But as others below say, accepting others mistakes does not make them change their ways.
      A sterility virus would be the most gentle solution, methinks as few are lining up for the surgeon.

      On 2017-11-10, at 8:16 PM, Fred Kaluza fredkaluza@... [thegreatchange] wrote:


      Populate and perish.  I love it.  Keeping borders closed will serve as a disincentive.  Being continually accepting of everyone's mistakes is only leaving them with a way out.  It's the same nonsense that's happening right now.  If you build a bridge across a river but place a sign that says "do not use", you know that some will try it.

      On November 10, 2017, at 20:03, "Graeme Robin gmfrobin@... [thegreatchange]" <thegreatchange@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


      It's not brain surgery Helmut!

      • Start paying people for NOT having children instead of rewarding child rearing.
      • Create the notion of "Populate AND Perish" rather than "Populate OR Perish".
      • Remove funding (and encouragement) to Science and medicine where it is aimed at prolonging life. Birth rates are already reducing but it is the longevity that is killing us. Get back to the 3 score years and 10.
      • Close country borders to immigration so that the heavy breeding countries are no longer able to export their excess. Sounds harsh but it will happen one day, so bring it on. The sooner the better.
      • Wealthy western countries assist in any way possible (other than by immigration)
      And there are a heap of better brains around the world that are better than mine. We could easily double or treble this list.

      I believe the only way - the only way - is to have a group of the world's most influential activists get together, plan and execute a program of persuasion. It would center on only the one message:
      This message is confronting, undeniable, inarguable, compelling and above all, simple. It must stand alone and never be mixed in with environmental matters etc all of which are to some degree arguable and deniable. The type of person I foresee as being part of this forum would be David Attenborough (a most trusted world voice), Pope Francis (a vital cog in the population wheel) and others from all geographic areas BUT limited to a small number of people in the public eye and with access to the public forum.

      • Where were you Helmut when Britons voted against the advice of all the vested interests in their country and went Brexit! Who is brave enough to say that it was not a groundswell of feeling against population pressures in Britain.
      • Who is brave enough to deny that D.Trump was elected on the back of dissatisfaction with the status-quo.
      All countries are dedicated to that word 'Growth" - and indeed perpetual growth. No one wants recession.
      But surely it is obvious that perpetual growth is not sustainable in a finite world!
      It's time for economists to strike a blow! Time for them to earn their keep.

      I can't argue with Jack even to the point that we will be eating each other sometime in the future. It looks pretty sure that he will be right. BUT. Surely it behoves us to at least have a go at making a change. ZPG would not be enough but by hell it would be a start!

      Am I right in thinking that your birth rate is 1.54 per woman as compared with the world average of 2.6. And that your population growth rate is 0.78% - world average 1.15% (maybe these figures are a little out of date). I guess that the Swiss would be "givers" to the big breeders when we get around to closing the borders.

      Helmut, I am with Jack when he says we should stop gazing at our navel and get moving - or words to that effect......Graeme Robin


      If you see "many many solutions", would you describe some?

      Who will "broadcast the awareness", if the owners of the media are deaf to the problem, and benefit from cheap (immigrant) labour?

      In Europe I see no "groundswell of unease in the community" about world population growth.

      I can't imagine how we, in the overdeveloped part of the world, could achieve population reduction in other, independent countries. Most European countries are afraid of their own population decline trends.

      In past posts Jack has presented caculations about the population size effects of one child per family, i.e. the number of years it would take to have a noticeable effect.

      In Switzerland, heavily overpopulated (local resources:population) all parties were against the 2015 immigration restriction intiative, "left, center, or right wing".

      HL ecoglobe.ch/requiem

      Le 10 nov. 2017 02:58, "Graeme Robin gmfrobin@... [thegreatchange]" <thegreatchange@yahoogroups. com> a écrit :


      There are many, many solutions to the population growth disaster heading our grandchildren's way but no one will seek the solutions until there is an awareness that we have a problem.

      So it is the awareness that has to be broadcast. The awareness that we cannot continue to add 9.000 people every hour onto our finite planet. It MUST and WILL stop sometime. Absolutely no doubt!

      If politics fail the military will be left to do the job.

      You know it would only take one major political party in any of our countries to add world population reduction to their party platform for the ball to start rolling. There is a groundswell of unease in the community and this unease can easily be converted into votes. That party, be it left, center, or right wing will garner these votes and achieve a mandate.

      But it would take a statesman to do it - and statesmen seem to be an endangered species these days...............Graeme Robin

      Richard Balfour  
      Strategic Planner
      • SPORPORI Strategic Planning for Ocean Rise and Peak Oil Resettlement Institute

      7276 Denman Road Denman Island BC Canada V0R 1T0             250 335 0766
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      • Vancouver Peak Oil Executive www.vancouverpeakoil.org


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