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15604Re: [gaiapc] FW: The Movie "Killing Europe" has been cancelled

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  • Helmut L
    28 Nov, 2017
      Madeline,

      No, I don't remember. I only visited family in California in 2001 (five days).
      I Wonder whether focusing on the jihad and extreme parts of religious
      texts are the best way to address the problems.

      Could it be that addressing, and reducing the *causes* of
      radicalisation is more promising?

      What I heard and read about the circumstances around that killing
      spree in the Sinai leaves many options of thought, such as Radio
      Austria [do try and listen to that broadcast, which seems being a most
      credible analysis to me! -
      http://oe1.orf.at/player/20171127/494882 - 12:20 "Sinai-Anschlag:
      Neue Détails" ,
      Radio DRS1, emails from a good friend who spends his winters in the
      Sinai [copy further down!!]....

      Atheists, biologists, psychologists, you name it, can have narrow perspectives.
      "mainstream Islamic theology"? Sunnite, Chiite?

      What matters more, me thinks,
      - the theology, the influence the rulers have by instrumentalisation
      of the extreme parts of texts (which also have very peaceful rules),
      - or the habits of people of different beliefs, who lived peacefully
      as neighbours and freinds, till politics and war mongerers started
      stirring?

      To me, focusing on the extremists is the wrong way. One should
      encourage the positive.
      The "war on terror" has dramatically failed. Violence breeds violence.
      The politicies and wars of the USofAmerica and their vassals are prime
      examples.

      HelmutL ... from Europe

      [mail copy:
      "Ja, wenn man alle Zusammenhänge kennte ... Die einen sagen, das waren
      ja ca. 30 Attentäter, alle sahen in welche Richtung sie geflohen sind,
      es wäre ein leichtes, sie einzuzirkeln und zu fangen oder halt
      totzuschiessen. Nein, die Gegend wird bombardiert. Wieviele
      unbeteiligte Tote hat das noch dazu gegeben? Wurden die Attentäter
      eliminiert? Wurde die Gegend wirklich bombardiert? Die anderen sagen,
      das sei ein Racheakt Israels für die Öffnung der Grenze zu Gaza, kein
      Muslim würde betende Muslims in der Moschee töten. Andere meinen, die
      Regierung sei unfähig der Lage Herr zu werden. Und es heisst, die
      Behörden hätten noch nie mit der örtlichen Bevölkerung gesprochen, das
      sind Beduinenstämme, die man auf seine Seite bringen und um Hilfe
      angehen sollte. Und wenn ich mich noch weiter umhöre kriege ich sicher
      noch andere Ideen. Wir sind ca. 400 km vom Ort des Attentats entfernt.
      Wo das nächste Attentat stattfindet, wissen wir nicht, es kann ebenso
      hier wie in Genf sein."
      end copy]

      >>>
      On 28/11/2017, 'Madeline Weld' madweld@... [gaiapc]
      <gaiapc@...> wrote:
      > Helmut,
      >
      >
      >
      > Do you remember those billboard ads in the US, where a smiling, pink
      > hijab-wearing Muslima was saying something like, “My jihad is working out at
      > the gym, what’s yours?” It became famous when Pamela Geller answered with
      > ads that showed a militant saying something like, “My jihad is killing
      > people, what’s yours?” I can’t remember the exact details and wording, but
      > that was the gist of it.
      >
      >
      >
      > Anyway, there are several kinds of jihad mentioned in the Koran and Hadith,
      > and in one hadith the jihad of the sword is referred to as the “lesser
      > jihad.” So some apologists have tried to downplay violent jihad as the
      > lesser jihad and not really what jihad is all about. That’s what the
      > pink-hijabbed Muslima was supposed to represent. Unfortunately, that is not
      > how it has been interpreted in mainstream Islamic theology (which Geller was
      > trying to show in her ad).
      >
      >
      >
      > That idea of jihad of the sword being a “lesser jihad” than the various
      > other forms of jihad (of the heart, of the tongue, of the hand) was what I
      > meant about “self-improvement.”
      >
      >
      >
      > Madeline
      >
      >
      >
      > From: gaiapc@... [mailto:gaiapc@...]
      > Sent: November 27, 2017 5:07 AM
      > To: GAIAPC
      > Subject: Re: [gaiapc] FW: The Movie "Killing Europe" has been cancelled
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Madeline, I find such suggestions a weird way of discussing: "I suppose you
      > think that jihad is all about self-improvement".
      > On this list, at least me, I think I'm not stupid.
      >
      > Indeed, other reactions clearly explain how "the US or Israel (and their
      > "vasal states") must somehow be responsible for the latest massive attack on
      > the Sufi mosque in Sinai" and much more.
      >
      > Karl, Jada, Thanks for pointing again at our wars of aggression,
      > destabilising and destroying whole regions, and the comments on the effects
      > of the TransAtlanticPartnership.
      >
      > Stan, Don, Multi-culti is surreptuous, "a Trojan horse". In some Europen
      > states, notably the UK and Germany, sharia laws and polygamy are tolerated
      > by au-tho-ri-ties, or because they feel/are powerless to enforce country
      > laws.
      >
      > HL
      > www.ecoglobe.ch/scenarios
      > www.ecoglobe.ch/requiem
      >
      >
      >
      > I second Karl's point of view.
      >
      > In point of fact, the hysteria over the imposition of "burgeoning Islam" and
      > the spread of sharia law in the West is just that. The legal system of the
      > UK and former British colonies is based upon English common law, centuries
      > in the making. It will not be replaced by any other legal system unless we
      > change our constitutions, which is vanishingly less than probable.
      >
      > The legal issue (in the article supplied) concerned the possibility of
      > sharia "arbitration," which in any event is not a mandate for society in
      > general, but a voluntary agreement of parties in a dispute to have an
      > Islamic legal authority, not a civil court, adjudicate a dispute. The irony
      > here is that such arbitration clauses are required by multi-national trade
      > agreements (most notoriously by the Trans Pacific Partnership) and -- as of
      > this month -- by the US Congress, which has allowed banks to require
      > arbitration by any depositor/customer who wishes to sue them.
      >
      > The upshot is this: nobody in the West may be forced to consent to sharia
      > arbitration, but practically everybody in the US can now be forced to accept
      > arbitration by financiers who steal from them and who then get the privilege
      > of selecting the non-judicial arbiter to solve the dispute. So who is the
      > larger threat, Islamic marriage counselors or Too Big To Fail banks and
      > international corporate-capitalist thieves?
      >
      > Put another way, when was the last time a Muslim imam was fined hundreds of
      > billions of dollars by the US Department of Justice for defrauding the
      > public? This happens practically every day on Wall Street which, please
      > note, is not run by Muslims the last time anybody checked.
      >
      > Jada
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > On Sunday, November 26, 2017 3:00 PM, "Karl S North knorth@...
      > [gaiapc]" <gaiapc@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      >
      > Well, Stan, the devil is in the details of the systemic, historical context
      > that I was trying to provide, that explains at least some of the complexity.
      >
      >
      > For the record, I think every society should ban attempts by minorities to
      > impose legal frameworks that contradict those of the majority. That goes for
      > US fundamentalist Christians who try to takeover the government, the Zionist
      > fifth columns who have already taken over much of US and European foreign
      > policy, and extremist Muslims who try to impose Sharia law on Western
      > society.
      >
      > On Sun, Nov 26, 2017 at 3:42 PM, Stanley N Salthe ssalthe@...
      > [gaiapc] <gaiapc@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      >
      > Well, Karl, I think it wise to view a burgeoning Islam like the growth of
      > gun culture.
      >
      > DANGEROUS to the existing situation. 'Guns don't kill'!
      >
      > Or -- just more tinder on the growing fire.
      >
      > Or -- more confounding complexity.
      >
      > STAN
      >
      > On Sun, Nov 26, 2017 at 3:25 PM, Karl S North knorth@... [gaiapc]
      > <gaiapc@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      >
      > Don,
      >
      > This piece is the kind of trash people think they can seriously post when
      > you use loose language like 'Islamic takeover'. Who is this Madeline Weld,
      > who to my knowledge has never posted on the list before? A troll intent on
      > preying on the historical and sociological ignorance of some people on this
      > list?
      >
      > Hardly "unconstrained analysis", this piece is typical of US imperial
      > establishment geopolitical strategy papers, whose self-imposed constraint is
      > to never mentioned the historical reality of US imperial control, in this
      > case of the Middle East. For then would have to acknowledge the itself as
      > the primary cause of the rise of Islamic extremism from a tiny impotent
      > minority to a threat. It would have to admit the role of US govt agencies
      > like the CIA committed to covert organized crime, in this case building
      > these violent Islamic minorities into ultimately uncontrolled forces. The
      > CIA, like the sorcerer's apprentice in Goethe's folktale, repeatedly plays
      > out its playbook recipes from Guatemala to Libya to the Philippines, always
      > producing the same blowback as violence it cannot no longer control.
      >
      > Instead, this piece uses typical ideological tactics to sell its argument:
      > the repeated image of the West/US as a 'burning house', arab words like
      > ummah and dawah, never adequately defined, as scare tactics, and always
      > equating all of the diversity of Islamic society with chosen references in
      > Sharia law or extremist publications. Its cartoon graphic faults Alinskyism,
      > Political Correctness and Postmodernism as sources of US vulnerability to
      > Islamic takeover, but never explains why or even what these are.
      > Alinskyism??? 1960s community organizing? Really? Too bad the author does
      > not reveal the twisted analysis behind that idea.
      >
      > The reality on the ground that pieces like this deliberately ignore is that
      > the only "burning house" currently is the cities and economy of the Middle
      > East caused mainly by decades of brutal US Air Force bombing, fully
      > supported by Canadian and European vassal states, often deliberately
      > targeting civilian populations, in a desperate attempt to retain Western
      > control of the region's oil. Whatever the truth of Islamic extremist goals
      > of 'takeover', this US state-sponsored terrorism is the main cause of the
      > influx into Western countries, of refugees from the region, people of all
      > faiths, not just Muslims.
      >
      > Here are the realities on the ground that this ideologically driven
      > geopolitical piece would like us to ignore:
      >
      > 1. The reality is that imperial violence has generated violent resistance by
      > extremists. It does not take a PhD in geopolitics to see that.
      >
      > 2. The reality is that the US-Saudi-Zionist triumvirate has used the violent
      > elements it has created to further destroy the region and take down the
      > governments that are leading the trend toward secularization and regaining
      > sovereignty: Libya, Iraq and Syria, which threatens Western imperialism and
      > backward, racist theocracies like the Saudi monarchy and Israel. Were it not
      > for a century of Western imperial interference, the Middle East likely would
      > have become much more peaceful, modern and secular than it is today.
      >
      > 3. The reality is that most ordinary people who are political and economic
      > refugees from Western imperial exploitation everywhere would prefer to
      > remain in their home countries if life was livable there. Ask emigrant
      > Hondurans, Syrians, Malians, whoever - that's what they say. The great
      > majority espouse no ideology of takeover - just the opposite. They send
      > money home to help their families survive until conditions improve so that
      > they themselves can return home.
      >
      > On Sun, Nov 26, 2017 at 12:41 AM, 'Madeline Weld' madweld@...
      > [gaiapc] <gaiapc@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      >
      > This Unconstrained Analysis by Stephen Coughlin explains how the “Ummah”
      > works in conjunction with jihad and dawa to “burn down the house” of our
      > civilization. It was produced in the Obama era when words like jihad and
      > Islam (associated with terror) were verboten, but it still explains how
      > things work.
      >
      >
      >
      > Madeline
      >
      >
      >
      > From: gaiapc@... [mailto:gaiapc@...]
      > Sent: November 25, 2017 4:26 PM
      > To: gaiapc@...
      > Subject: Re: [gaiapc] FW: The Movie "Killing Europe" has been cancelled
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Don,
      >
      >
      >
      > I would be careful to avoid language like "Islamic primary goal of 'take
      > over'" in an era when extremist identity politics has driven so many people
      > into blatant anti-islamic bigotry. Even on this discussion list, people
      > whose education includes little social science have deliberately conflated
      > violent Wahabist Islamic extremist minorities with all of Islam.
      > Practitioners of modern moderate Islam are no more expansionist than
      > Christianity. Actually less so than Christian missionaries I have
      > encountered in Africa, Latin America and elsewhere, who all over the
      > colonized world have been the cultural advance guard of Western imperialism,
      > congenial associates of the imperialist armed forces. The only difference
      > between Christian missionaries and the Islamic jihadi extremists is the
      > division of labor: the Christians leave the brutality to the military arm of
      > the imperialist 'take over'. The Jihadis combine the two.
      >
      >
      >
      > On Sat, Nov 25, 2017 at 9:53 AM, Don Chisholm donchism@... [gaiapc]
      > <gaiapc@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      >
      > Thanks for your ongoing efforts in this 'wakeup' campaign.
      > I first 'woke up' to the issue of the Islamic primary goal of 'take over'
      > when, 12 years ago in Ontario they petitioned government to be able to
      > administer their flock under sharia law. There are plenty of web
      > references, but this one highlights the view of Theresa May about their
      > quest.
      >
      > https://www.jihadwatch.org/201 6/07/a-lesson-from-ontario-can
      > ada-for-sharia-law-advocate-th eresa-may
      >
      > Under the veil of religion, it is a trojan horse of their jihad movement.
      > Don
      >
      > On 2017-11-25 2:10 AM, 'Madeline Weld' madweld@... [gaiapc] wrote:
      >
      >
      >
      > If anyone in the Ottawa area was planning to go to the Ottawa Public Library
      > on Saturday to view the film Killing Europe, don’t go – it has been
      > cancelled. The OPL caved into pressure from Antifa. However, the good news
      > is that you can watch the film in the comfort of your own home by vimeo for
      > a lot less than it would have cost you to go the Library. You can see it
      > here for $3.74 CAD: https://vimeo.com/ondemand/kil lingeurope/238970726.
      >
      >
      >
      > On Wednesday, I spoke to someone at the Library about security. Everything
      > was still set to go. I had made the booking on October 24th. The Library
      > only notified us of the cancellation on Friday. Not by phone, although they
      > had my phon e numbers. The Library said that the film did not conform to
      > their Terms and Conditions, but they had since October 24th to see it, and
      > didn’t cancel it until the last minute. People were not only calling the
      > Library, they were also calling the mayor and city councillors demanding the
      > film be cancelled.
      >
      >
      >
      > You might consider contacting the mayor and your councillor and express your
      > disappointment about the stifling of free speech. You might also consider
      > contacting the Library and express your disappointment that they caved in to
      > pressure. The OPL chief executive officer, who notified me of the
      > cancellation, is Danielle McDonald, danielle.mcdonald@biblioottawa
      > library.ca.
      >
      >
      >
      > But the good news is that the filmmaker Michael Hansen has informed us that
      > as a result of all the publicity, lots and lots of people are viewing his
      > film online. And that’s the whole point, to get lots of people to see the
      > film.
      >
      >
      >
      > We plan to try to show the film early next year. The venue will probably be
      > in Toronto.
      >
      >
      >
      > Madeline
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Posted by: "Madeline Weld" <madweld@...>
      >
      > Reply via web post • Reply to sender • Reply to group • Start a new topic •
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      >
      >
      >
      > --
      >
      > Karl North - http://karlnorth.com/
      > "Pueblo que canta no morira" - Cuban saying
      > "They only call it class warfare when we fight back" - Anon.
      > "My father rode a camel. I drive a car. My son flies a jet-plane. His son
      > will ride a camel."
      > —Saudi saying
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > --
      >
      > Karl North - http://karlnorth.com/
      > "Pueblo que canta no morira" - Cuban saying
      > "They only call it class warfare when we fight back" - Anon.
      > "My father rode a camel. I drive a car. My son flies a jet-plane. His son
      > will ride a camel."
      > —Saudi saying
      >
      >
      >
      >


      --
      HLubbers www.ecoglobe.ch/requiem





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