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15653Re: [gaiapc] FW: 2 The Movie "Killing Europe" has been cancelled

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  • Karl S North
    29 Nov, 2017
      DC: Since this issue is not verifiable as black or white, I'll likely to continue to think that aggression is built into the Islamic message, and it was likely amplified for them by the US aggression in the past 1/2+ decade.   

      What is verifiable is that there is no monolithic "Islamic messsage", an error only someone blinded by ignorance, fear or hate could make. The article in many of its statements and Madeline in many of her statements propagate this myth, as I pointed out before. I am disappointed to see that you believe it as well. It is obvious that many of the modern world's 1.6 billion Muslims do not share your belief in the inherent aggressivity of Islam.  If it were true that scriptural statements made centuries ago could somehow infect the behavior of all practitioners today, the aggressive "message" built into and promoted in the Old Testament would make most Christians living today a grave threat to humanity. 

      DC As I mentioned before, I thought it was a bit 'over the top' in delivery, but the message delivered had a lot of reality. 
      And it may well play into the hands, 'Big Brother Watching'. 

      You need to read the article again. The message delivered was a mess of opinion statements with no attempt to make a case for the opinions, and not even any attempt to explain  terms or the elements in the burning house graphics, as I pointed out before with specific references. How could any intelligent person be persuaded by such superficial garbage?

      On Wed, Nov 29, 2017 at 8:12 PM, Don Chisholm donchism@... [gaiapc] <gaiapc@...> wrote:
       

      Karl, I've some comment within your text:

      On 2017-11-29 12:32 PM, Karl S North knorth@... [gaiapc] wrote:
       
      No, Don, as I and others have argued at length, what you call stealth Islam is not just "somewhat related", it is directly related to the imperial stealth funding of its activities by the CIA and Saudi Arabia in collusion. No one denies the existence of various shades of aggressive Wahabism. But without that funding and the longtime imperial prop to the hoary antidiluvian monarchy that is its source, stealth Islam would starve and die back to an irrelevant entity.
      DC: Since this issue is not verifiable as black or white, I'll likely to continue to think that aggression is built into the Islamic message, and it was likely amplified for them by the US aggression in the past 1/2+ decade.  

        I am sorry that you did not see fit to roundly condemn the article your friend Madelaine promoted for the obviously ideologically-driven piece of propaganda that it is. Such trash is regularly produced by US imperial propagandists, intended to activate the bigotry seething just below the surface of North American culture, fomenting fear and acceptance of the surveillance state at home and continued wars abroad.
      DC As I mentioned before, I thought it was a bit 'over the top' in delivery, but the message delivered had a lot of reality.
      And it may well play into the hands, 'Big Brother Watching'.
      Don 


      On Mon, Nov 27, 2017 at 2:40 PM, Don Chisholm donchism@kos.net [gaiapc] <gaiapc@yahoogroups.ca> wrote:
       

      Helmut, I agree that it was useful for: <<Karl, Jada, Thanks for pointing again at our wars of aggression, destabilising and destroying whole regions, and the comments on the effects of the TransAtlanticPartnership.>>

      While these are big bad issues of our current history, but Madeline's references were about stealth Islam. These different items, but no doubt, somewhat related.
      Don

      On 2017-11-27 5:06 AM, Helmut L helmut.lubbers@... [gaiapc] wrote:
       

      Madeline, I find such suggestions a weird way of discussing: "I suppose you think that jihad is all about self-improvement".
      On this list, at least me, I think I'm not stupid.

      Indeed, other reactions clearly explain how "the US or Israel (and their "vasal states") must somehow be responsible for the latest massive attack on the Sufi mosque in Sinai" and much more.

      Karl, Jada, Thanks for pointing again at our wars of aggression, destabilising and destroying whole regions, and the comments on the effects of the TransAtlanticPartnership.

      Stan, Don, Multi-culti is surreptuous, "a Trojan horse". In some Europen states, notably the UK and Germany, sharia laws and polygamy are tolerated by au-tho-ri-ties, or because they feel/are powerless to enforce country laws.

      HL
      www.ecoglobe.ch/scenarios
      www.ecoglobe.ch/requiem

       

      I second Karl's point of view. 

      In point of fact, the hysteria over the imposition of "burgeoning Islam" and the spread of sharia law in the West is just that. The legal system of the UK and former British colonies is based upon English common law, centuries in the making. It will not be replaced by any other legal system unless we change our constitutions, which is vanishingly less than probable.

      The legal issue (in the article supplied) concerned the possibility of sharia "arbitration," which in any event is not a mandate for society in general, but a voluntary agreement of parties in a dispute to have an Islamic legal authority, not a civil court, adjudicate a dispute. The irony here is that such arbitration clauses are required by multi-national trade agreements (most notoriously by the Trans Pacific Partnership) and -- as of this month -- by the US Congress, which has allowed banks to require arbitration by any depositor/customer who wishes to sue them. 

      The upshot is this: nobody in the West may be forced to consent to sharia arbitration, but practically everybody in the US can now be forced to accept arbitration by financiers who steal from them and who then get the privilege of selecting the non-judicial arbiter to solve the dispute. So who is the larger threat, Islamic marriage counselors or Too Big To Fail banks and international corporate-capitalist thieves? 

      Put another way, when was the last time a Muslim imam was fined hundreds of billions of dollars by the US Department of Justice for defrauding the public? This happens practically every day on Wall Street which, please note, is not run by Muslims the last time anybody checked.

      Jada




        

      On Sunday, November 26, 2017 3:00 PM, "Karl S North knorth@... [gaiapc]" <gaiapc@...> wrote:

       

      Well, Stan, the devil is in the details of the systemic, historical context that I was trying to provide, that explains at least some of the complexity. 

      For the record, I think every society should ban attempts by minorities to impose legal frameworks that contradict those of the majority. That goes for US fundamentalist Christians who try to takeover the government, the Zionist fifth columns who have already taken over much of US and European foreign policy, and extremist Muslims who try to impose Sharia law on Western society.

      On Sun, Nov 26, 2017 at 3:42 PM, Stanley N Salthe ssalthe@... [gaiapc] <gaiapc@...> wrote:

       

      Well, Karl, I think it wise to view a burgeoning Islam like the growth of gun culture. 

      DANGEROUS to the existing situation.  'Guns don't kill'!

      Or -- just more tinder on the growing fire.

      Or -- more confounding complexity.

      STAN

      On Sun, Nov 26, 2017 at 3:25 PM, Karl S North knorth@... [gaiapc] <gaiapc@...> wrote:

       

      Don, 

      This piece is the kind of trash people think they can seriously post when you use loose language like 'Islamic takeover'. Who is this Madeline Weld, who to my knowledge has never posted on the list before? A troll intent on preying on the historical and sociological ignorance of some people on this list? 

      Hardly "unconstrained analysis", this piece is typical of US imperial establishment geopolitical strategy papers, whose self-imposed constraint is to never mentioned the historical reality of US imperial control, in this case of the Middle East. For then  would have to acknowledge the itself as the primary cause of the rise of Islamic extremism from a tiny impotent minority to a threat. It would have to admit the role of  US govt agencies like the CIA committed to covert organized crime, in this case building these violent Islamic minorities into ultimately uncontrolled forces. The CIA, like the sorcerer's apprentice in Goethe's folktale, repeatedly plays out its playbook recipes from Guatemala to Libya to the Philippines, always producing the same blowback as violence it cannot no longer control. 

      Instead, this piece uses typical ideological tactics to sell its argument: the repeated image of the West/US as a 'burning house', arab words like ummah and dawah, never adequately defined, as scare tactics, and always equating all of the diversity of Islamic society with chosen references in Sharia law or extremist publications. Its cartoon graphic faults Alinskyism, Political Correctness and Postmodernism as sources of US vulnerability to Islamic takeover, but never explains why or even what these are. Alinskyism??? 1960s community organizing? Really? Too bad the author does not reveal the twisted analysis behind that idea. 

      The reality on the ground that pieces like this deliberately ignore is that the only "burning house" currently is the cities and economy of the Middle East caused mainly by decades of brutal US Air Force bombing, fully supported by Canadian and European vassal states, often deliberately targeting civilian populations, in a desperate attempt to retain Western control of the region's oil. Whatever the truth of Islamic extremist goals of 'takeover', this US state-sponsored terrorism is the main cause of the influx into Western countries, of refugees from the region, people of all faiths, not just Muslims. 

      Here are the realities on the ground that this ideologically driven geopolitical piece would like us to ignore:

      1. The reality is that imperial violence has generated violent resistance by extremists. It does not take a PhD in geopolitics to see that. 

      2. The reality is that the US-Saudi-Zionist triumvirate has used the violent elements it has created to further destroy the region and take down the governments that are leading the trend toward secularization and regaining sovereignty: Libya, Iraq and Syria, which threatens Western imperialism and backward, racist theocracies like the Saudi monarchy and Israel. Were it not for a century of Western imperial interference, the Middle East likely would have become much more peaceful, modern and secular than it is today.  

      3. The reality is that most ordinary people who are political and economic refugees from Western imperial exploitation everywhere would prefer to remain in their home countries if life was livable there. Ask emigrant Hondurans, Syrians, Malians, whoever - that's what they say. The great majority espouse no ideology of takeover - just the opposite. They send money home to help their families survive until conditions improve so that they themselves can return home. 

      On Sun, Nov 26, 2017 at 12:41 AM, 'Madeline Weld' madweld@... [gaiapc] <gaiapc@...> wrote:

       

      This Unconstrained Analysis by Stephen Coughlin explains how the “Ummah” works in conjunction with jihad and dawa to “burn down the house” of our civilization. It was produced in the Obama era when words like jihad and Islam (associated with terror) were verboten, but it still explains how things work.

       

      Madeline

       

      From: gaiapc@... [mailto:gaiapc@...]
      Sent: November 25, 2017 4:26 PM
      To: gaiapc@...
      Subject: Re: [gaiapc] FW: The Movie "Killing Europe" has been cancelled

       

       

      Don,

       

      I would be careful to avoid language like "Islamic primary goal of 'take over'" in an era when extremist identity politics has driven so many people into blatant anti-islamic bigotry. Even on this discussion list, people whose education includes little social science have deliberately conflated violent Wahabist Islamic extremist minorities with all of Islam. Practitioners of modern moderate Islam are no more expansionist than Christianity. Actually less so than Christian missionaries I have encountered in Africa, Latin America and elsewhere, who all over the colonized world have been the cultural advance guard of Western imperialism, congenial associates of the imperialist armed forces. The only difference between Christian missionaries and the Islamic jihadi extremists is the division of labor: the Christians leave the brutality to the military arm of the imperialist 'take over'. The Jihadis combine the two. 

       

      On Sat, Nov 25, 2017 at 9:53 AM, Don Chisholm donchism@... [gaiapc] <gaiapc@...> wrote:

       

      Thanks for your ongoing efforts in this 'wakeup' campaign. 
      I first 'woke up' to the issue of the Islamic primary goal of 'take over' when, 12 years ago in Ontario they petitioned government to be able to administer their flock under sharia law.  There are plenty of web references, but this one highlights the view of Theresa May about their quest. 

      https://www.jihadwatch.org/201 6/07/a-lesson-from-ontario-can ada-for-sharia-law-advocate-th eresa-may

      Under the veil of religion, it is a trojan horse of their jihad movement.
      Don

      On 2017-11-25 2:10 AM, 'Madeline Weld' madweld@... [gaiapc] wrote:

       

      If anyone in the Ottawa area was planning to go to the Ottawa Public Library on Saturday to view the film Killing Europe, don’t go – it has been cancelled. The OPL caved into pressure from Antifa. However, the good news is that you can watch the film in the comfort of your own home by vimeo for a lot less than it would have cost you to go the Library. You can see it here for $3.74 CAD: https://vimeo.com/ondemand/kil lingeurope/238970726.

       

      On Wednesday, I spoke to someone at the Library about security. Everything was still set to go. I had made the booking on October 24th. The Library only notified us of the cancellation on Friday. Not by phone, although they had my phon e numbers. The Library said that the film did not conform to their Terms and Conditions, but they had since October 24th to see it, and didn’t cancel it until the last minute. People were not only calling the Library, they were also calling the mayor and city councillors demanding the film be cancelled.

       

      You might consider contacting the mayor and your councillor and express your disappointment about the stifling of free speech.  You might also consider contacting the Library and express your disappointment that they caved in to pressure. The OPL chief executive officer, who notified me of the cancellation, is Danielle McDonald, danielle.mcdonald@biblioottawa library.ca.

       

      But the good news is that the filmmaker Michael Hansen has informed us that as a result of all the publicity, lots and lots of people are viewing his film online. And that’s the whole point, to get lots of people to see the film.

       

      We plan to try to show the film early next year. The venue will probably be in Toronto.

       

      Madeline

       

       

      Posted by: "Madeline Weld" <madweld@...>

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      --

      Karl North -  http://karlnorth.com/
      "Pueblo que canta no morira" - Cuban saying
      "They only call it class warfare when we fight back" - Anon.
      "My father rode a camel. I drive a car. My son flies a jet-plane. His son will ride a camel."
       —Saudi saying



      --

      Karl North -  http://karlnorth.com/
      "Pueblo que canta no morira" - Cuban saying
      "They only call it class warfare when we fight back" - Anon.
      "My father rode a camel. I drive a car. My son flies a jet-plane. His son will ride a camel."
       —Saudi saying


      -- 
      
      
      



      --
      Karl North -  http://karlnorth.com/
      "Pueblo que canta no morira" - Cuban saying
      "They only call it class warfare when we fight back" - Anon.
      "My father rode a camel. I drive a car. My son flies a jet-plane. His son will ride a camel."
       —Saudi saying


      -- 
      
      
      




      --
      Karl North -  http://karlnorth.com/
      "Pueblo que canta no morira" - Cuban saying
      "They only call it class warfare when we fight back" - Anon.
      "My father rode a camel. I drive a car. My son flies a jet-plane. His son will ride a camel."
       —Saudi saying
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