15826Re: [gaiapc] the Future is Indigenous...
- 20 Dec, 2017Richard’s perception of the utility of citiesderives from his clear view of a civilization in overshoot.He reports on civilization collapseas.the thing coming at him like a freight train.Not being in a city is like getting off the tracks.However, the same calculations show that citiesin the none overshoot casemay be the only way to maintain and expandscience and art and limit conflict.See SKIL Note 100 ==> A Sustainable Civilization —— What does a sustainable civilization look like.CheersjackJack Alpert PhD Director:
Stanford Knowledge Integration Laboratory http://www.skil.org
(C) 913 708 2554 alpert@... skype: SKILdog
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JadaI agree with your assessment but in some idealistic manner trying to find routes to rediscover paths to the ideal and some pattern of community on the downslope more in touch with nature, based on no way cities can be sustained and access to land and in a friendly, low tech, low energy mode. This is something we cannot escape as energy and systems go into melt down, fast or slow. The hard part is the fact that such futures, even the best of them are a harder life than the present, and hard to sell. The masses just keep hoping the bad news will end. This is the Zombie, Mummy, Werewolf Elf set of outlooks. Zombie is unaware and in denial and just says feed me, the Mummy just woke up but has no idea WTF to do, the werewolf mentality is aware, on the move, and looking to harvest what he can on the downslope and the elf, often aware a long time and quietly trying to find his way back to nature in order to survive. Call it tribal or communal, the move has to be as peaceful and community oriented as possible to succeed.In looking at this bountiful corner of the planet, my earlier numbers on in migration from outside and out migration from the cities was too optimistic, this is not Africa or the tropics, we do have winters, the impact of numbers, the limits to growth applied, the environmental footprint I am testing in a number of ways suggest as we have discussed, is that all places are in overshoot and to accept any more from anywhere is a disaster. Just the same, testing some options going through the bottleneck we are entering, this place might be able to take a doubling under duress if very restrictive approaches to resettlement are applied. So many paths to failure, few avenues of passage.rOn 2017-12-18, at 8:22 AM, Jada Thacker jadathacker@... [gaiapc] wrote:Richard, thanks for sending.Although I fully empathize with Blanco's views, I don't think the near-term future will be "indigenous" for the mass of humanity. But the past certainly was. As obvious as it is, this fact is rarely conceded by current "environmentalists" or anybody else.How pathetic it is for Moderns to cast about, frantically seeking "models of sustainability," when it was we Moderns who intentionally annihilated the last sustainable societies on Earth! Agri-business/industrialism -- and all its vaunted accomplishments, cultural, scientific, and technological -- has indeed produced innumerable artifacts that might have been convenient for humans living in "indigenous" sustainable societies 12,000 years ago. But it has never produced a single thing necessary for the survival of those societies. Quite the opposite.Considering this self-evident fact, it appears that human "progress" since the advent of civilization has been only a series of vain attempts to solve the problems it has caused. Moreover, civilization -- not being satisfied with even that astronomical level of futility -- has now "progressed" to inventing even more problematic solutions for problems that do not even exist: choose your favorite lethal pharmaceutical or addictive smartphone as examples.So, yeah, Blanco is on to something big. But like Marx, I'm afraid he is looking through the wrong end of the telescope: global society in general is not reverting inexorably toward "indigenous" communalism, but "progressing" catastrophically away from it.JadaOn Sunday, December 17, 2017 1:48 PM, "Richard Balfour balfourarch@... [gaiapc]" <gaiapc@...> wrote:Begin forwarded message:From: Norberto Rodriguez <norbertorvega@...>Date: December 17, 2017 8:02:28 AM PSTTo: undisclosed-recipients:;Subject: the Future is Indigenous...Hugo Blanco is one the greatest indigenous leaders from Latin America. We all could learn a little bit from his visions. Here are couple of interviews with him:norberto rodriguez
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