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15984Re: [gaiapc] Fwd: Genesis 3:16 and the ecological crisis

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  • Steve Kurtz
    Jan 3 11:21 AM
      He implied humans are different and unnatural. I disagreed with him!

      Steve

      Sent from my iPhone

      On Jan 3, 2018, at 1:46 PM, Luis Gutierrez ltg4263@... [gaiapc] <gaiapc@...> wrote:

       

      "He thinks humans are different than all other social mammals in that the others "do what comes naturally”, while humans fuck it up."

      I agree with this understanding of the Genesis story.  Indeed, everything was fine until humans messed up the natural order of things (Genesis 3:1-6).  The immediate result was the loss of original innocence in gender relations (3:7ff), leading to the patriarchal curse (3:16) as the most universal disorder, from which all others follow (3:17ff).

      So, it seems to me that mitigating/overcoming this curse is crucial if we are to survive the equally universal curse that is the ecological crisis.

      If humans fucked it up, humans can unfuck it up.

      Luis

      On Wed, Jan 3, 2018 at 12:57 PM, Steve Kurtz kurtzs@... [gaiapc] <gaiapc@...> wrote:
       

      I read the piece. He thinks humans are different than all other social mammals in that the others "do what comes naturally”, while humans fuck it up. This is questionable given that hierarchy is part of most (all?) social mammals, and given that MPP and MEPP have few exceptions (which prove the rule.) We needn’t like the states of affairs, but what makes you think they can be changed peacefully and proactively? Women seem to be gaining ground in some societies, and I like that. I say it is “natural” just as the more patriarchal stages are. What has worked to grow the plague species is natural, and what culls us back will also be natural. All a matter of definition I suppose, but we ain’t so special in my view.


      Steve

      On Jan 3, 2018, at 12:28 PM, Luis Gutierrez ltg4263@... [gaiapc] <gaiapc@...> wrote:


      More on the linkage between gender and everything else:

      Life Without Limits: The Delusions of Technological Fundamentalism
      Robert Jensen, Resilience, 3 January 2018
      http://www.resilience.org/ stories/2018-01-03/life- without-limits-the-delusions- of-technological- fundamentalism/

      Gender issues are crucial for the ecological common good.  Even if we start from different premises, all paths eventually converge on the truth.  We should not abort the dialogue due to differences of opinion about human nature, religious traditions, the scientific method, etc.

      Luis

      ---------- Forwarded message ----------
      From: Luis Gutierrez <ltg4263@...>
      Date: Tue, Jan 2, 2018 at 4:20 PM
      Subject: Fwd: Genesis 3:16 and the ecological crisis
      To: gaiapc@..., TGC <thegreatchange@yahoogroups. com>


      I still tend to agree with Horgan's conclusion that the natural biology is fine, the distortions are cultural aberrations.  

      Another interesting analysis:

      The non-binary brain
      Misogynists are fascinated by the idea that human brains are biologically male or female.. But they’ve got the science wrong.
      Emily Willingham, Aeon, 2 January 2018
      https://aeon.co/essays/why-its -so-unhelpful-to-talk-about- the-male-or-female-brain

      It seems to me that, from the "apple" story and the origins of the patriarchal curse in Genesis, to the current social and ecological crisis, the "binary" has done much harm, and recognizing the "mosaic" is becoming increasingly critical for human development and ecological sanity.

      This is another good reference:

      How Gender Shapes the World
      Alexandra Y. Aikhenvald
      Oxford University Press, 2016
      https://global.oup.com/academi c/product/how-gender-shapes- the-world-9780198723752

      :-) Needless to say, the "definitive" wisdom about sex/gender issues in ***all*** secular and religious dimensions can be found in this section of my website:


      Natural complementarity is good.  Patriarchal complementarianism is bad.  

      Luis

      ---------- Forwarded message ----------
      From: Luis Gutierrez <ltg4263@...>
      Date: Fri, Dec 29, 2017 at 9:14 PM
      Subject: Genesis 3:16 and the ecological crisis
      To: gaiapc@..., TGC <thegreatchange@... m>


      Fascinating, see Genesis 3:16.  I think that this cultural disorder, which was latent but became exacerbated by the energy surplus of fossil fuels, is the primary root of the ecological crisis:

      Do Women Want to be Oppressed?
      Evolutionary theorists propose that female desire for domineering males helped create a patriarchal world.
      John Horgan, Scientific American, 29 December 2017
      https://blogs.scientificameric an.com/cross-check/do-women-wa nt-to-be-oppressed/

      Luis




      —————————————
      Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd.
      Voltaire (1770)


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