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Life's building blocks observed in spacelike environment

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  • Steve Kurtz
    Emergence is awe inspiring! Steve ... ————————————— Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd. Voltaire (1770)
    Message 1 of 15 , 12 Dec, 2017

      Emergence is awe inspiring!

      Steve





      —————————————
      Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd.
      Voltaire (1770)

    • narguimbau@earthlink.net
      Here s a quotation from the article itself: The research group found that a variety of small organic molecules were produced in icy films subjected to LEEs.
      Message 2 of 15 , 12 Dec, 2017

        Here's a quotation from the article itself:


        "The research group found that a variety of small organic molecules were produced in icy films subjected to LEEs. Propylene, ethane and acetylene were all formed in films of frozen methane. When a frozen mixture of methane and oxygen was irradiated with LEEs, they found direct evidence that ethanol was formed.

        Indirect evidence for many other small organic molecules, including methanol, acetic acid and formaldehyde was found. In addition, both X-rays and LEEs produced similar results, although at different rates. Thus, it is possible that life's building blocks might have been made through chemical reactions induced by secondary electrons on icy surfaces in space exposed to any form of ionizing radiation".


        It's a stretch to call these mollelculles they actually did see "lfe's building blocks," and all they concluded was "it is possible that life's building blocks might have been made through chemical reactions induced by secondary electrons on icy surfaces in space exposed to any form of ionizing radiation".

        "

        On 12/12/2017 4:01 PM, Steve Kurtz kurtzs@... [gaiapc] wrote:
         

        Emergence is awe inspiring!

        Steve





        —————————————
        Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd.
        Voltaire (1770)


      • Steve Kurtz
        Nick, Is that just your opinion or do you have supporting data? Steve ... ————————————— Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but
        Message 3 of 15 , 12 Dec, 2017
          Nick,

          Is that just your opinion or do you have supporting data?

          Steve

          On Dec 12, 2017, at 7:05 PM, 'narguimbau@...' narguimbau@... [gaiapc] <gaiapc@...> wrote:


          Here's a quotation from the article itself:


          "The research group found that a variety of small organic molecules were produced in icy films subjected to LEEs. Propylene, ethane and acetylene were all formed in films of frozen methane. When a frozen mixture of methane and oxygen was irradiated with LEEs, they found direct evidence that ethanol was formed.

          Indirect evidence for many other small organic molecules, including methanol, acetic acid and formaldehyde was found. In addition, both X-rays and LEEs produced similar results, although at different rates. Thus, it is possible that life's building blocks might have been made through chemical reactions induced by secondary electrons on icy surfaces in space exposed to any form of ionizing radiation".


          It's a stretch to call these mollelculles they actually did see "lfe's building blocks," and all they concluded was "it is possible that life's building blocks might have been made through chemical reactions induced by secondary electrons on icy surfaces in space exposed to any form of ionizing radiation".

          "

          On 12/12/2017 4:01 PM, Steve Kurtz kurtzs@... [gaiapc] wrote:
           

          Emergence is awe inspiring!

          Steve





          —————————————
          Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd.
          Voltaire (1770)




          —————————————
          Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd.
          Voltaire (1770)

        • Don Chisholm
          Steve, Nick s opinion was that his quote was found in the article.  His supporting data would be the article. ... Just sayin.... Don ... -- Steve, Nick s
          Message 4 of 15 , 12 Dec, 2017
            Steve, Nick's opinion was that his quote was found in the article.  His supporting data would be the article.
            ... Just sayin....
            Don



            On 2017-12-12 8:24 PM, Steve Kurtz kurtzs@... [gaiapc] wrote:
             

            Nick,


            Is that just your opinion or do you have supporting data?

            Steve

            On Dec 12, 2017, at 7:05 PM, 'narguimbau@...' narguimbau@... [gaiapc] <gaiapc@...> wrote:


            Here's a quotation from the article itself:


            "The research group found that a variety of small organic molecules were produced in icy films subjected to LEEs. Propylene, ethane and acetylene were all formed in films of frozen methane. When a frozen mixture of methane and oxygen was irradiated with LEEs, they found direct evidence that ethanol was formed.

            Indirect evidence for many other small organic molecules, including methanol, acetic acid and formaldehyde was found. In addition, both X-rays and LEEs produced similar results, although at different rates. Thus, it is possible that life's building blocks might have been made through chemical reactions induced by secondary electrons on icy surfaces in space exposed to any form of ionizing radiation".


            It's a stretch to call these mollelculles they actually did see "lfe's building blocks," and all they concluded was "it is possible that life's building blocks might have been made through chemical reactions induced by secondary electrons on icy surfaces in space exposed to any form of ionizing radiation".

            "

            On 12/12/2017 4:01 PM, Steve Kurtz kurtzs@... [gaiapc] wrote:
             

            Emergence is awe inspiring!

            Steve





            —————————————
            Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd.
            Voltaire (1770)




            —————————————
            Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd.
            Voltaire (1770)


            -- 
            
            
            
          • Steve Kurtz
            The full study and supporting data for the article is here: (freely available) http://aip.scitation.org/doi/10.1063/1.5003898
            Message 5 of 15 , 12 Dec, 2017
              The full study and supporting data for the article is here: (freely available)

              Nick called the journalists words a stretch. (the judgement of “stretch” was Nick’s.) That is often the case with journalist short articles, but the study is detailed and exploratory. Science is about hypotheses and theories which are contingent and not absolute truth. Does Nick have a proposed better explanation for the emergence of life forms? What was the point of pooh-poohing the study?

              It's a stretch to call these mollelculles they actually did see "lfe's building blocks," and all they concluded was "it is possible that life's building blocks might have been made through chemical reactions induced by secondary electrons on icy surfaces in space exposed to any form of ionizing radiation".



              Steve


              On Dec 12, 2017, at 9:43 PM, Don Chisholm donchism@... [gaiapc] <gaiapc@...> wrote:


              Steve, Nick's opinion was that his quote was found in the article.  His supporting data would be the article. 
              ... Just sayin....
              Don



              On 2017-12-12 8:24 PM, Steve Kurtz kurtzs@... [gaiapc] wrote:
               

              Nick,


              Is that just your opinion or do you have supporting data?

              Steve

              On Dec 12, 2017, at 7:05 PM, 'narguimbau@...' narguimbau@... [gaiapc] <gaiapc@...> wrote:


              Here's a quotation from the article itself:


              "The research group found that a variety of small organic molecules were produced in icy films subjected to LEEs. Propylene, ethane and acetylene were all formed in films of frozen methane. When a frozen mixture of methane and oxygen was irradiated with LEEs, they found direct evidence that ethanol was formed.

              Indirect evidence for many other small organic molecules, including methanol, acetic acid and formaldehyde was found. In addition, both X-rays and LEEs produced similar results, although at different rates. Thus, it is possible that life's building blocks might have been made through chemical reactions induced by secondary electrons on icy surfaces in space exposed to any form of ionizing radiation".


              It's a stretch to call these mollelculles they actually did see "lfe's building blocks," and all they concluded was "it is possible that life's building blocks might have been made through chemical reactions induced by secondary electrons on icy surfaces in space exposed to any form of ionizing radiation".

              "

              On 12/12/2017 4:01 PM, Steve Kurtz kurtzs@... [gaiapc] wrote:
               

              Emergence is awe inspiring!

              Steve





              —————————————
              Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd.
              Voltaire (1770)




              —————————————
              Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd.
              Voltaire (1770)


              -- 
              
              
              


              —————————————
              Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd.
              Voltaire (1770)

            • Steve Kurtz
              FYI. Brief comment by a Max Planck geo-physicist/chemist friend in Zurich. Steve ... ————————————— Doubt is not a pleasant condition,
              Message 6 of 15 , 13 Dec, 2017


                FYI. Brief comment by a Max Planck geo-physicist/chemist friend in Zurich.

                Steve

                Begin forwarded message:

                From: "A.P." <anselmo.pedroni
                Subject: Re: Life's building blocks observed in spacelike environment
                Date: December 13, 2017 at 1:09:12 AM EST
                To: "Steve Kurtz" <kurtzs@...>

                excerpt: “a number of small organic molecules can form in a cold, spacelike environment full of radiation
                 
                comment: radiation may be an essential part of the process, by creating active & reaction prone radicals etc. 




                 
                Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2017 10:01 PM
                Subject: Life's building blocks observed in spacelike environment
                 
                 
                Emergence is awe inspiring!
                 
                Steve
                 
                 
                 

                —————————————
                Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd.
                Voltaire (1770)

              • Stanley N Salthe
                I m ready to be inspired when they find nucleotides! STAN On Tue, Dec 12, 2017 at 4:01 PM, Steve Kurtz kurtzs@ncf.ca [gaiapc]
                Message 7 of 15 , 13 Dec, 2017
                  I'm ready to be inspired when they find nucleotides!

                  STAN

                  On Tue, Dec 12, 2017 at 4:01 PM, Steve Kurtz kurtzs@... [gaiapc] <gaiapc@...> wrote:
                   


                  Emergence is awe inspiring!

                  Steve





                  —————————————
                  Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd.
                  Voltaire (1770)


                • Helmut L
                  If you don t find it a strech then kindly explain why. Nick called the journalists words a stretch.. (the judgement of “stretch” was Nick’s.) ... --
                  Message 8 of 15 , 13 Dec, 2017
                    If you don't find it a "strech" then kindly explain why.

                    "Nick called the journalists words a stretch.. (the judgement of
                    “stretch” was Nick’s.)"


                    On 13/12/2017, Steve Kurtz kurtzs@... [gaiapc] <gaiapc@...> wrote:
                    > The full study and supporting data for the article is here: (freely
                    > available)
                    > http://aip.scitation.org/doi/10.1063/1.5003898
                    > <http://aip.scitation.org/doi/10.1063/1.5003898>
                    >
                    > Nick called the journalists words a stretch. (the judgement of “stretch” was
                    > Nick’s.) That is often the case with journalist short articles, but the
                    > study is detailed and exploratory. Science is about hypotheses and theories
                    > which are contingent and not absolute truth. Does Nick have a proposed
                    > better explanation for the emergence of life forms? What was the point of
                    > pooh-poohing the study?
                    >
                    >>>>> It's a stretch to call these mollelculles they actually did see "lfe's
                    >>>>> building blocks," and all they concluded was "it is possible that
                    >>>>> life's building blocks might have been made through chemical reactions
                    >>>>> induced by secondary electrons on icy surfaces in space exposed to any
                    >>>>> form of ionizing radiation".
                    >>>>>
                    >>>>>
                    >
                    > Steve
                    >
                    >
                    >> On Dec 12, 2017, at 9:43 PM, Don Chisholm donchism@... [gaiapc]
                    >> <gaiapc@...> wrote:
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> Steve, Nick's opinion was that his quote was found in the article. His
                    >> supporting data would be the article.
                    >> ... Just sayin....
                    >> Don
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> On 2017-12-12 8:24 PM, Steve Kurtz kurtzs@... <mailto:kurtzs@...>
                    >> [gaiapc] wrote:
                    >>>
                    >>> Nick,
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>> Is that just your opinion or do you have supporting data?
                    >>>
                    >>> Steve
                    >>>
                    >>>> On Dec 12, 2017, at 7:05 PM, 'narguimbau@...
                    >>>> <mailto:narguimbau@...>' narguimbau@...
                    >>>> <mailto:narguimbau@...> [gaiapc] <gaiapc@...
                    >>>> <mailto:gaiapc@...>> wrote:
                    >>>>
                    >>>>
                    >>>> Here's a quotation from the article itself:
                    >>>>
                    >>>>
                    >>>>
                    >>>> "The research group found that a variety of small organic molecules were
                    >>>> produced in icy films subjected to LEEs. Propylene, ethane and acetylene
                    >>>> were all formed in films of frozen methane. When a frozen mixture of
                    >>>> methane and oxygen was irradiated with LEEs, they found direct evidence
                    >>>> that ethanol was formed.
                    >>>>
                    >>>> Indirect evidence for many other small organic molecules, including
                    >>>> methanol, acetic acid and formaldehyde was found. In addition, both
                    >>>> X-rays and LEEs produced similar results, although at different rates.
                    >>>> Thus, it is possible that life's building blocks might have been made
                    >>>> through chemical reactions induced by secondary electrons on icy
                    >>>> surfaces in space exposed to any form of ionizing radiation".
                    >>>>
                    >>>>
                    >>>>
                    >>>> It's a stretch to call these mollelculles they actually did see "lfe's
                    >>>> building blocks," and all they concluded was "it is possible that life's
                    >>>> building blocks might have been made through chemical reactions induced
                    >>>> by secondary electrons on icy surfaces in space exposed to any form of
                    >>>> ionizing radiation".
                    >>>>
                    >>>> "
                    >>>>
                    >>>> On 12/12/2017 4:01 PM, Steve Kurtz kurtzs@... <mailto:kurtzs@...>
                    >>>> [gaiapc] wrote:
                    >>>>>
                    >>>>>
                    >>>>> Emergence is awe inspiring!
                    >>>>>
                    >>>>> Steve
                    >>>>>
                    >>>>>
                    >>>>>> https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/12/171212125443.htm
                    >>>>>> <https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/12/171212125443.htm?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+sciencedaily%2Ftop_news%2Ftop_science+%28ScienceDaily%3A+Top+Science+News%29>
                    >>>>>
                    >>>>>
                    >>>>>
                    >>>>>
                    >>>>> —————————————
                    >>>>> Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd.
                    >>>>> Voltaire (1770)
                    >>>>>
                    >>>>
                    >>>>
                    >>>
                    >>> —————————————
                    >>> Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd.
                    >>> Voltaire (1770)
                    >>>
                    >>
                    >> --
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >
                    > —————————————
                    > Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd.
                    > Voltaire (1770)
                    >
                    >


                    --
                    HLubbers www.ecoglobe.ch/requiem
                  • Steve Kurtz
                    All scientific research is somewhat speculative. If the article and particularly the study are seen as valuable to two physicist friends (the other is at
                    Message 9 of 15 , 13 Dec, 2017
                      All scientific research is somewhat speculative. If the article and particularly the study are seen as valuable to two physicist friends (the other is at Princeton, and you know his postings, H.L.) then I would not pooh-pooh it. As I wrote, journalists may misrepresent studies for headline effect, but the study is valuable science in my opinion. If you think not, then you are welcome to find top scientists in that field to back up your opinion!

                      Waste of bandwidth to dump on studies shooting from the hip only.

                      Steve



                      On Dec 13, 2017, at 11:55 AM, Helmut L helmut.lubbers@... [gaiapc] <gaiapc@...> wrote:

                      If you don't find it a "strech" then kindly explain why.

                      "Nick called the journalists words a stretch.. (the judgement of
                      “stretch” was Nick’s.)"

                      On 13/12/2017, Steve Kurtz kurtzs@... [gaiapc] <gaiapc@...> wrote:
                      > The full study and supporting data for the article is here: (freely
                      > available)
                      > http://aip.scitation.org/doi/10.1063/1.5003898
                      > <http://aip.scitation.org/doi/10.1063/1.5003898>
                      >
                      > Nick called the journalists words a stretch. (the judgement of “stretch” was
                      > Nick’s.) That is often the case with journalist short articles, but the
                      > study is detailed and exploratory. Science is about hypotheses and theories
                      > which are contingent and not absolute truth. Does Nick have a proposed
                      > better explanation for the emergence of life forms? What was the point of
                      > pooh-poohing the study?
                      >
                      >>>>> It's a stretch to call these mollelculles they actually did see "lfe's
                      >>>>> building blocks," and all they concluded was "it is possible that
                      >>>>> life's building blocks might have been made through chemical reactions
                      >>>>> induced by secondary electrons on icy surfaces in space exposed to any
                      >>>>> form of ionizing radiation".
                      >>>>>
                      >>>>>
                      >
                      > Steve
                      >
                      >
                      >> On Dec 12, 2017, at 9:43 PM, Don Chisholm donchism@... [gaiapc]
                      >> <gaiapc@...> wrote:
                      >>
                      >>
                      >> Steve, Nick's opinion was that his quote was found in the article. His
                      >> supporting data would be the article.
                      >> ... Just sayin....
                      >> Don
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >> On 2017-12-12 8:24 PM, Steve Kurtz kurtzs@... <mailto:kurtzs@...>
                      >> [gaiapc] wrote:
                      >>>
                      >>> Nick,
                      >>>
                      >>>
                      >>> Is that just your opinion or do you have supporting data?
                      >>>
                      >>> Steve
                      >>>
                      >>>> On Dec 12, 2017, at 7:05 PM, 'narguimbau@...
                      >>>> <mailto:narguimbau@...>' narguimbau@...
                      >>>> <mailto:narguimbau@...> [gaiapc] <gaiapc@...
                      >>>> <mailto:gaiapc@...>> wrote:
                      >>>>
                      >>>>
                      >>>> Here's a quotation from the article itself:
                      >>>>
                      >>>>
                      >>>>
                      >>>> "The research group found that a variety of small organic molecules were
                      >>>> produced in icy films subjected to LEEs. Propylene, ethane and acetylene
                      >>>> were all formed in films of frozen methane. When a frozen mixture of
                      >>>> methane and oxygen was irradiated with LEEs, they found direct evidence
                      >>>> that ethanol was formed.
                      >>>>
                      >>>> Indirect evidence for many other small organic molecules, including
                      >>>> methanol, acetic acid and formaldehyde was found. In addition, both
                      >>>> X-rays and LEEs produced similar results, although at different rates.
                      >>>> Thus, it is possible that life's building blocks might have been made
                      >>>> through chemical reactions induced by secondary electrons on icy
                      >>>> surfaces in space exposed to any form of ionizing radiation".
                      >>>>
                      >>>>
                      >>>>
                      >>>> It's a stretch to call these mollelculles they actually did see "lfe's
                      >>>> building blocks," and all they concluded was "it is possible that life's
                      >>>> building blocks might have been made through chemical reactions induced
                      >>>> by secondary electrons on icy surfaces in space exposed to any form of
                      >>>> ionizing radiation".
                      >>>>
                      >>>> "
                      >>>>
                      >>>> On 12/12/2017 4:01 PM, Steve Kurtz kurtzs@... <mailto:kurtzs@...>
                      >>>> [gaiapc] wrote:
                      >>>>>
                      >>>>>
                      >>>>> Emergence is awe inspiring!
                      >>>>>
                      >>>>> Steve
                      >>>>>
                      >>>>>
                      >>>>>> https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/12/171212125443.htm
                      >>>>>> <https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/12/171212125443.htm?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+sciencedaily%2Ftop_news%2Ftop_science+%28ScienceDaily%3A+Top+Science+News%29>
                      >>>>>
                      >>>>>
                      >>>>>
                      >>>>>
                      >>>>> —————————————
                      >>>>> Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd.
                      >>>>> Voltaire (1770)
                      >>>>>
                      >>>>
                      >>>>
                      >>>
                      >>> —————————————
                      >>> Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd.
                      >>> Voltaire (1770)
                      >>>
                      >>
                      >> --
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >
                      > —————————————
                      > Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd.
                      > Voltaire (1770)
                      >
                      >

                      -- 
                      HLubbers www.ecoglobe.ch/requiem


                      —————————————
                      Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd.
                      Voltaire (1770)

                    • narguimbau@earthlink.net
                      I m not going to answer your question.  The really interesting question is whether any planet will acquire life if it is not in a solar system surrounded by
                      Message 10 of 15 , 13 Dec, 2017

                        I'm not going to answer your question.  The really interesting question is whether any planet will acquire life if it is not in a solar system surrounded by an Oort cloud that gives it comets.  See https://www.space.com/16401-oort-cloud-the-outer-solar-system-s-icy-shell.html, and google "organic molecules and comets."  Organic material in interstellar space doesn't help us unless it has a systdematic way of getting here.


                        On 12/12/2017 8:24 PM, Steve Kurtz kurtzs@... [gaiapc] wrote:
                         

                        Nick,


                        Is that just your opinion or do you have supporting data?

                        Steve

                        On Dec 12, 2017, at 7:05 PM, 'narguimbau@...' narguimbau@... [gaiapc] <gaiapc@...> wrote:


                        Here's a quotation from the article itself:


                        "The research group found that a variety of small organic molecules were produced in icy films subjected to LEEs. Propylene, ethane and acetylene were all formed in films of frozen methane. When a frozen mixture of methane and oxygen was irradiated with LEEs, they found direct evidence that ethanol was formed.

                        Indirect evidence for many other small organic molecules, including methanol, acetic acid and formaldehyde was found. In addition, both X-rays and LEEs produced similar results, although at different rates. Thus, it is possible that life's building blocks might have been made through chemical reactions induced by secondary electrons on icy surfaces in space exposed to any form of ionizing radiation".


                        It's a stretch to call these mollelculles they actually did see "lfe's building blocks," and all they concluded was "it is possible that life's building blocks might have been made through chemical reactions induced by secondary electrons on icy surfaces in space exposed to any form of ionizing radiation".

                        "

                        On 12/12/2017 4:01 PM, Steve Kurtz kurtzs@... [gaiapc] wrote:
                         

                        Emergence is awe inspiring!

                        Steve





                        —————————————
                        Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd.
                        Voltaire (1770)




                        —————————————
                        Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd.
                        Voltaire (1770)


                      • narguimbau@earthlink.net
                        I m not going to answer your question, but the really exciting information can be found by googling organic molecules in comets, since we have thousands of
                        Message 11 of 15 , 13 Dec, 2017

                          I'm not going to answer your question, but the really exciting information can be found by googling "organic molecules in comets," since we have thousands of incoming comets via the "Oort cloud" surrounding our solar system.  This makes me wonder whether it is worth looking for life in solar systems without Oort clouds at all, no matter how promising the planets are.  Comets and Oort clouds provide a systematic way of getting water and organics, even amino acids, to planets


                          On 12/12/2017 8:24 PM, Steve Kurtz kurtzs@... [gaiapc] wrote:
                           

                          Nick,


                          Is that just your opinion or do you have supporting data?

                          Steve

                          On Dec 12, 2017, at 7:05 PM, 'narguimbau@...' narguimbau@... [gaiapc] <gaiapc@...> wrote:


                          Here's a quotation from the article itself:


                          "The research group found that a variety of small organic molecules were produced in icy films subjected to LEEs. Propylene, ethane and acetylene were all formed in films of frozen methane. When a frozen mixture of methane and oxygen was irradiated with LEEs, they found direct evidence that ethanol was formed.

                          Indirect evidence for many other small organic molecules, including methanol, acetic acid and formaldehyde was found. In addition, both X-rays and LEEs produced similar results, although at different rates. Thus, it is possible that life's building blocks might have been made through chemical reactions induced by secondary electrons on icy surfaces in space exposed to any form of ionizing radiation".


                          It's a stretch to call these mollelculles they actually did see "lfe's building blocks," and all they concluded was "it is possible that life's building blocks might have been made through chemical reactions induced by secondary electrons on icy surfaces in space exposed to any form of ionizing radiation".

                          "

                          On 12/12/2017 4:01 PM, Steve Kurtz kurtzs@... [gaiapc] wrote:
                           

                          Emergence is awe inspiring!

                          Steve





                          —————————————
                          Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd.
                          Voltaire (1770)




                          —————————————
                          Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd.
                          Voltaire (1770)


                        • narguimbau@earthlink.net
                          I may be mistaken, but I think I see a difference between your title, ] Life s building blocks observed in spacelike environment, and what the article says,
                          Message 12 of 15 , 13 Dec, 2017

                            I may be mistaken, but I think I see a difference between your title, ] "Life's building blocks observed in spacelike environment," and what the article says, "it is possible possible that life's building blocks  might have been made."  Steve, you can do much better.


                            On 12/12/2017 8:24 PM, Steve Kurtz kurtzs@... [gaiapc] wrote:
                             

                            Nick,


                            Is that just your opinion or do you have supporting data?

                            Steve

                            On Dec 12, 2017, at 7:05 PM, 'narguimbau@...' narguimbau@... [gaiapc] <gaiapc@...> wrote:


                            Here's a quotation from the article itself:


                            "The research group found that a variety of small organic molecules were produced in icy films subjected to LEEs. Propylene, ethane and acetylene were all formed in films of frozen methane. When a frozen mixture of methane and oxygen was irradiated with LEEs, they found direct evidence that ethanol was formed.

                            Indirect evidence for many other small organic molecules, including methanol, acetic acid and formaldehyde was found. In addition, both X-rays and LEEs produced similar results, although at different rates.tions induced by secondary electrons on icy surfaces in space exposed to any form of ionizing radiation".


                            It's a stretch to call these mollelculles they actually did see "lfe's building blocks," and all they concluded was "it is possible that life's building blocks might have been made through chemical reactions induced by secondary electrons on icy surfaces in space exposed to any form of ionizing radiation".

                            "

                            On 12/12/2017 4:01 PM, Steve Kurtz kurtzs@... [gaiapc] wrote:
                             

                            Emergence is awe inspiring!

                            Steve





                            —————————————
                            Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd.
                            Voltaire (1770)




                            —————————————
                            Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd.
                            Voltaire (1770)


                          • Steve Kurtz
                            Sometimes too many words for subject line I erred in my editing Steve Sent from my iPhone ... Sometimes too many words for subject line I erred in my editing
                            Message 13 of 15 , 14 Dec, 2017
                              Sometimes too many words for subject line
                              I erred in my editing 

                              Steve

                              Sent from my iPhone

                              On Dec 14, 2017, at 1:08 AM, 'narguimbau@...' narguimbau@... [gaiapc] <gaiapc@...> wrote:

                               

                              I may be mistaken, but I think I see a difference between your title, ] "Life's building blocks observed in spacelike environment," and what the article says, "it is possible possible that life's building blocks  might have been made."  Steve, you can do much better.


                              On 12/12/2017 8:24 PM, Steve Kurtz kurtzs@... [gaiapc] wrote:
                               

                              Nick,


                              Is that just your opinion or do you have supporting data?

                              Steve

                              On Dec 12, 2017, at 7:05 PM, 'narguimbau@...' narguimbau@... [gaiapc] <gaiapc@...> wrote:


                              Here's a quotation from the article itself:


                              "The research group found that a variety of small organic molecules were produced in icy films subjected to LEEs. Propylene, ethane and acetylene were all formed in films of frozen methane. When a frozen mixture of methane and oxygen was irradiated with LEEs, they found direct evidence that ethanol was formed.

                              Indirect evidence for many other small organic molecules, including methanol, acetic acid and formaldehyde was found. In addition, both X-rays and LEEs produced similar results, although at different rates.tions induced by secondary electrons on icy surfaces in space exposed to any form of ionizing radiation".


                              It's a stretch to call these mollelculles they actually did see "lfe's building blocks," and all they concluded was "it is possible that life's building blocks might have been made through chemical reactions induced by secondary electrons on icy surfaces in space exposed to any form of ionizing radiation".

                              "

                              On 12/12/2017 4:01 PM, Steve Kurtz kurtzs@... [gaiapc] wrote:
                               

                              Emergence is awe inspiring!

                              Steve





                              —————————————
                              Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd.
                              Voltaire (1770)




                              —————————————
                              Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd.
                              Voltaire (1770)


                            • Stanley N Salthe
                              As I thought I posted the other day -- this fact has been known at least since 1972, when I discussed it in my textbook, Evolutionary Biology . STAN On Thu,
                              Message 14 of 15 , 14 Dec, 2017
                                As I thought I posted the other day -- this fact has been known at least since 1972, when I discussed it in my textbook, Evolutionary Biology'.

                                STAN

                                On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 12:59 AM, 'narguimbau@...' narguimbau@... [gaiapc] <gaiapc@...> wrote:
                                 

                                I'm not going to answer your question, but the really exciting information can be found by googling "organic molecules in comets," since we have thousands of incoming comets via the "Oort cloud" surrounding our solar system.  This makes me wonder whether it is worth looking for life in solar systems without Oort clouds at all, no matter how promising the planets are.  Comets and Oort clouds provide a systematic way of getting water and organics, even amino acids, to planets


                                On 12/12/2017 8:24 PM, Steve Kurtz kurtzs@... [gaiapc] wrote:
                                 

                                Nick,


                                Is that just your opinion or do you have supporting data?

                                Steve

                                On Dec 12, 2017, at 7:05 PM, 'narguimbau@...' narguimbau@... [gaiapc] <gaiapc@...> wrote:


                                Here's a quotation from the article itself:


                                "The research group found that a variety of small organic molecules were produced in icy films subjected to LEEs. Propylene, ethane and acetylene were all formed in films of frozen methane. When a frozen mixture of methane and oxygen was irradiated with LEEs, they found direct evidence that ethanol was formed.

                                Indirect evidence for many other small organic molecules, including methanol, acetic acid and formaldehyde was found. In addition, both X-rays and LEEs produced similar results, although at different rates. Thus, it is possible that life's building blocks might have been made through chemical reactions induced by secondary electrons on icy surfaces in space exposed to any form of ionizing radiation".


                                It's a stretch to call these mollelculles they actually did see "lfe's building blocks," and all they concluded was "it is possible that life's building blocks might have been made through chemical reactions induced by secondary electrons on icy surfaces in space exposed to any form of ionizing radiation".

                                "

                                On 12/12/2017 4:01 PM, Steve Kurtz kurtzs@... [gaiapc] wrote:
                                 

                                Emergence is awe inspiring!

                                Steve





                                —————————————
                                Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd.
                                Voltaire (1770)




                                —————————————
                                Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd.
                                Voltaire (1770)



                              • howe@megalink.net
                                Wow. This interesting conversation has strayed a long way from post oil survival as population continues to grow in a regime of finite carrying
                                Message 15 of 15 , 14 Dec, 2017
                                  Wow.  This interesting conversation has strayed a long way from post oil survival as population continues to grow in a regime of finite carrying capacity....until: CRASH!  I'm sure the biologists figured this out from the yeast in the Petri Dish.
                                   
                                  Happy Holidays.
                                   
                                  John
                                   
                                   
                                   

                                  From: "Stanley N Salthe ssalthe@... [gaiapc]" <gaiapc@...>
                                  Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2017 9:27 AM
                                  To: "Members of GaiaPC" <gaiapc@...>
                                  Subject: Re: [gaiapc] Life's building blocks observed in spacelike environment
                                   
                                   

                                   

                                  As I thought I posted the other day -- this fact has been known at least since 1972, when I discussed it in my textbook, Evolutionary Biology'.
                                   
                                  STAN
                                   
                                  On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 12:59 AM, 'narguimbau@...' narguimbau@... [gaiapc] <gaiapc@...> wrote:
                                   

                                   

                                  I'm not going to answer your question, but the really exciting information can be found by googling "organic molecules in comets," since we have thousands of incoming comets via the "Oort cloud" surrounding our solar system.  This makes me wonder whether it is worth looking for life in solar systems without Oort clouds at all, no matter how promising the planets are.  Comets and Oort clouds provide a systematic way of getting water and organics, even amino acids, to planets

                                   
                                  On 12/12/2017 8:24 PM, Steve Kurtz kurtzs@... [gaiapc] wrote:
                                   

                                  Nick,

                                   
                                  Is that just your opinion or do you have supporting data?
                                   
                                  Steve
                                   
                                  On Dec 12, 2017, at 7:05 PM, 'narguimbau@...' narguimbau@... [gaiapc] <gaiapc@...> wrote:
                                   
                                   

                                  Here's a quotation from the article itself:

                                   

                                  "The research group found that a variety of small organic molecules were produced in icy films subjected to LEEs. Propylene, ethane and acetylene were all formed in films of frozen methane. When a frozen mixture of methane and oxygen was irradiated with LEEs, they found direct evidence that ethanol was formed.

                                  Indirect evidence for many other small organic molecules, including methanol, acetic acid and formaldehyde was found. In addition, both X-rays and LEEs produced similar results, although at different rates. Thus, it is possible that life's building blocks might have been made through chemical reactions induced by secondary electrons on icy surfaces in space exposed to any form of ionizing radiation".

                                   

                                  It's a stretch to call these mollelculles they actually did see "lfe's building blocks," and all they concluded was "it is possible that life's building blocks might have been made through chemical reactions induced by secondary electrons on icy surfaces in space exposed to any form of ionizing radiation".

                                  "
                                   
                                  On 12/12/2017 4:01 PM, Steve Kurtz kurtzs@... [gaiapc] wrote:
                                   
                                   
                                  Emergence is awe inspiring!
                                   
                                  Steve
                                   
                                   
                                   
                                   
                                  —————————————
                                  Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd.
                                  Voltaire (1770)
                                   
                                   
                                   
                                  —————————————
                                  Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd.
                                  Voltaire (1770)

                                   

                                   

                                   

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